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I know this might better be placed in the equipment section, but I am really crunched for time and hoping with the higher traffic on this forum I might get some help. I just purchased most of my extracting equipment on Friday and I am working out the 'bugs'. The last issue seems to be with the filter unit. I am using a bronze gear pump from Mann Lake and pumping my honey into a commercial in-line filter from Dadant (http://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=631). Now the instructions state that the pressure gauge is not suppose to go over 15 psi and, then later in the instructions it states that when it goes up to around 40 psi it is an indication that you need to change the filter bag. I turned on my pump and immediately the needle on the pressure gauge moved up to the limit of the gauge. Honey was moving out the outlet of the filter but the pressure is way too high. My pump is rated at 6-8 gallons/minute and I see on Dadant's page is says it is rated for flow rates of "up to 5 gpm." So I picked up a ball valve this evening to put on the pump side of the line to reduce the flow to the filter when I go back tomorrow, but I wanted to see if there is anything else anyone might suggest from previous experience with this setup. I checked to make sure the filter bag is seated correctly and everything appears to be properly set up. The pressure gauge is on the top of the unit, but there is also two ports on the side of the unit for "differential pressure." Hoping someone can help me out ASAP. Much appreciated.
 

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If I am correct, you are using a positive displacement pump, which can not be "throttled", to push unheated honey though a filter intended for 150 deg honey.

Am I close?

Crazy Roland
 

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Well I am not sure if it is a positive displacement pump...that goes beyond my engineering knowledge, but I am pushing unheated honey through a filter in which they "suggest the honey be at least 100 degrees for longer lasting filters." This suggests to me that I will simply have to replace my filters more frequently, but it is all new to me so........???
 

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Heated honey is necessary to the best functioning of this straining system. The bag should have been wet before honey was put in it too. As wet as if you had just cleaned it. You shouldn't have to replace your Dadant filters. Unless you mean changing out clogged filters w/ clean filters.

Have you talked to the guys at Dadant's in Waverly? Drive down there and ask them what you should be doing.
 

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A gear pump is a positive displacement pump. The only way to throttle it down is to slow it down, or add a bypass. Putting a ball valve in-line is a bad idea on a gear pump.

If the pump is belt drive, then you may be able to change sheave sizes to slow it. If it is direct-drive, then you would have to change the motor (unless it is 3 phase).

If you don't want to buy a different pump or filter, then I would probably lean towards the bypass valve. Basically you connect a line from the pump outlet back to the pump inlet with a gate valve in between. This will allow the excess pressure to be bled back and recirculated.
 

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Wellllllll, there should be a relief valve between the pump and the filter. Now you could drive the pump with a DC drive that has a currrent limit feature setting the torque of the motor such that it would not go over 40 psi. This is effect would protect the system. The flow would vary as the viscosity of the honey varies and the clogging of the filter. If it were me I would have a pre-filter. This would catch the larger pieces and save cleaning the finer filter more often. You could also pre-strain the honey first to do the same thing.

A greater issue can be the viscosity of the honey on the suction side of the pump. It may require heating the honey so the pump does not cause cavitation. Another solution is to pressurize the infeed tank supplying the pump so you don't have to heat the honey if that is what you are trying to avoid. Keep the in feed line as short and as large as you can make it right up to the pump. Ex. if the pump is a 1 inch run a 2 inch line to it and reduce right at the pump.
 

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Brian, what do you suppose the simplest way would be to get honey from an extractor to pass thru a nylon bag strainer into a tank, bucket, or barrel? Isn't the simplest way the best for most people?
 

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I'm not an engineer.:)

But if you have a filter that can only handle 5 gpm, and a pump that is trying to move 6-8 gpm, how about putting a Tee fitting on the output of the pump and splitting the honey flow into (2) identical filters?

That doubles your filtering capacity and reduces the back pressure at the pump.
 

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Brian, what do you suppose the simplest way would be to get honey from an extractor to pass thru a nylon bag strainer into a tank, bucket, or barrel? Isn't the simplest way the best for most people?
The simplest way that I know of is a pneumatic piston transfer pump. We did this many times with a 2 inch pump (Aero brand). The pump will run as long as the filter stays clean. As the filter builds up the flow will slow down. I think the closest thing you could find today for the Aero replacement is made by Graco. Maybe Rader could find something else. Note that as you increase the pneumatic pressure on the pump the pressure on the output will increase. These pumps are expensive because they are tri clover food grade pumps.
 

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That doubles your filtering capacity and cuts down the back pressure.
When the filters are clean. The gear pump will continue to pump at near its rated value because it is a positive displacement pump. This type of pump has to slow down as the flow is restricted or you will have damage.
 

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And?

Surely any filter needs to be cleaned periodically. The pump obviously can handle a certain amount of back pressure - that is what the comments in the original post about changing the filter when the pressure gets up to 40 PSI is about.

Add filtering capacity until the 'normal' back pressure with clean filters is under 15 PSI, and change/clean filters before the pressure builds to 40 PSI.
 

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I'm not an engineer.:)

But if you have a filter that can only handle 5 gpm, and a pump that is trying to move 6-8 gpm, how about putting a Tee fitting on the output of the pump and splitting the honey flow into (2) identical filters?
Or you could start w/ the proper pump and filter system, which has an overflow tank built in to the side of the filter basket tank w/ a hose to return honey to the tank from which it came.

Graham and Brian, honey pumps don't run continuously. They are usually turned on when needed and then turned off, some times by float activated switch. There are ways to switch filter bags.
 

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The last issue seems to be with the filter unit. I am using a bronze gear pump from Mann Lake and pumping my honey into a commercial in-line filter from Dadant (http://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=631). Now the instructions state that the pressure gauge is not suppose to go over 15 psi and, then later in the instructions it states that when it goes up to around 40 psi it is an indication that you need to change the filter bag. I turned on my pump and immediately the needle on the pressure gauge moved up to the limit of the gauge. Honey was moving out the outlet of the filter but the pressure is way too high. My pump is rated at 6-8 gallons/minute and I see on Dadant's page is says it is rated for flow rates of "up to 5 gpm."
Looking back, do you think that maybe you would not be having these issues had you bought all of your parts from the same supplier? Does the pump that Dadant supplies run at the proper pressure? If you haven't used some of these parts maybe you can send them back to the supplier for credit and and get what you need.
 

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I think that it's the lack of heat that is the biggest issue. The beekeeper that I know who has this filter heats the honey to 100-110 and let's it settle at least overnight before pumping it through that filter. If the honey is a lot cooler you get issues with the filter plugging and cavitation. The same if you don't let the honey settle first. If you want to filter cooker honey maybe the non-pressurized Maxant basket type unit would be better?
 

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Graham and Brian, honey pumps don't run continuously. They are usually turned on when needed and then turned off, some times by float activated switch. There are ways to switch filter bags.
Mark, I do understand that honey pumps don't run continuously. But keqwow's stated issue with the pump putting out higher pressure than the filter is designed to handle needs to be addressed. My suggestion of adding an additional filter cuts down the back pressure on the pump. I did not intend to imply that an additional filter will increase the overall honey throughput of the entire system.


Adding one or more additional filters allows keqwow to utilize the equipment he has already purchased (and may not be able to return as it has already been used).
 

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I bet he mixed equipment from different suppliers and is now spending his savings. But I await his answer.
 

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Not sure why you are waiting, Mark. He specified in post #1 that the filter was from Dadant and the pump was from Mann Lake. :)
 

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mark
Its not the mixture of equip. ya cannt pump cold honey thru a dadant filter without the pressure building up.I dont care what kind of pump or plumbers night mare you create. an oac filter from canada will work with cold honey but it is by gravity. a tall small dia. tank does a good job of settling honey. until the honey is heated the dadant filter will not work. It is a good system but must be used with a heated sump.
 
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