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Hi, 3rd year beek, working on making a couple queens well before a split.
10 days ago, I removed the queen and 5 frames into a temporary nuc.
Then I chose some of the tiniest larva I could see, and tore down the cell walls below them to simulate a queen cell.
We had rotten weather, so I moved the nuc with the queen into my garage(I was afraid there was not enough bees to keep themselves warm)
After 3 full days, the nuc was reunited with the original hive, on the bottom board, with a queen excluder on top, then the rest of the hive.
4 days ago I pulled out the frame that had been prepped by cutting off the lower cell walls,,,, they were almost 100% repaired, with large grubs or capped brood! Oh well, my bees must not be on the 'net or read the same books I do.....

So today, I make the split, find the queen, and some emerging brood and stuff and move her out for good,
And on the bottom edge of drone comb, drone only, no capped workers,
Is 2 nicely capped queen cells.
How were fertilized eggs THERE ?
Anyone?
 

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I've never seen it, but know some beekeepers who swear they can and do move eggs? I have also read where in an emergency workers will take an unfertiled egg and try to make a queen out of it.
 

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More than likely there was a couple fertilized eggs .Just because it's on a frame of drones doesn't mean there's only drones on that frame.What brooksbeefarm is talking about is called Thelytoky which only occurs in a hopelessly queenless hive with laying workers,extremely rare.Thelytoky has been a pet project of mine for 10 years now.
 

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What about the lonely cells in the bottom bars of the lower frames? Does the queen go out of her way to lay in one of them or does a worker move an egg.

Last inspection, I found one queen cell all by itself on the bottom of the frame hanging straight down to the bottom board. Not another cell in site.
 

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I've never seen it, but know some beekeepers who swear they can and do move eggs? I have also read where in an emergency workers will take an unfertiled egg and try to make a queen out of it.
I agree with both of these statements. I've seen eggs in cells after moving frames above an excluder, and it was after 3 days. Ive also seen drone larvae in queen cells in laying worker hives.
Also, ABC and XYZ of Bee Culture has a segment on this, and one of the authors has seen bees move eggs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the tip, sqkcrk,,,,,
Let me be the first one to admit that I did not search that frame for any eggs, and they may have been there all along.
It just strikes me as odd,,, no bizarre, that there is not a capped worker cell on the entire frame.
 

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I've never seen it, but have had the odd occasion that had me scratching my head till I figured out what really happened.

None the less I've had quite a few people tell me they have bees that have moved eggs. In every one of these cases if I have been able to look at the hive myself, or get accurate information such a timing, manipulations, status of queen / queens etc on the case, the bees had not moved the eggs.

The main reasons people think bees moved eggs is faulty memory about exactly what they did and when, faulty equipment, more than one queen in the hive, thinking a queen cell with male larvae in it is a proper queen cell, thinking an empty and re-capped queen cell has a queen inside, and probably other reasons.

Also, people say something on a chat site, get into an argument that involves defending their position, and then find it impossible to tell people they were in fact mistaken. So other readers are misled by what was said. I know a definite example of that when some claims were made about a hive near me. I contacted the guy & asked if I could have a look, went there, and the queen cells had the now remains of drone larvae. The guy was with me and understood the situation. All the same, later at the bee club I go to I overheard him discussing it and saying yes they were proper queen cells, AFTER he had seen they weren't. Either liked a good story, or could not admit a mistake.
 

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Google Thelytoky it explains all these scenarios. I don't think ABC and XYZ of Bee Culture touches on Thelytoky. Beesource search engine has a few articles about it. The the queen cells with the drone cells are usually torn down but I've seen them capped they're cap is flat in appearance. I've seen bees carry eggs but haven't seen them deposit them in a cell yet, something I'm very jnterested in. Just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean I don't believe it. Anything is possible. Thelytoky is real interesting reading for beekeepers by the way.
 

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Thelytoky, which I don't know how to pronounce LOL, always comes up in these discussions. When people think a certain thing happened, thelytoky explains it. What is not often mentioned is thelytoky happens primarily in Cape bees not European bees. Thus, it happens in Dee Lusby's bees, a possible African influence. In EHB it is so rare that some experts do not think it happens ever. In my own experience I have never seen a hopelessly queenless hive requeen itself as per Dee Lusby's claims, I have had the odd one attract a virgin from somewhere else though. And that is after dealing with thousands of queenless hives / nucs as a queen breeder.
 

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I've been working on Thelytoky for 10 years now. It's also in Russians,carniolans and, cordovan Italians your wrong not only in the Cape.Extremely rare though.I am currently waiting on 4 cells to hatch out tomorrow,more will hatch out the day after.Usually they tear the queen cells down right after capping to 5 days after capping.I've been able to consistently get them past the 5 day mark.Past 3 years I've hatched out a few .This year I'm making considerable progress.They'll actually hatch out in what I believe to be the proper time frame. This is something I'm very quiet about(skeptics come out of the wood work)Not trying to prove anything to anyone other than myself. They're definitely kept in an area that's well guarded and not in someones best interest to be.Legacy for my children and grand children.Not interested in writing a book or my name in headlines.Will reserve that for children,grandchildren and my greatgrand children. I am fortunate enough to have some of the strange and odd knowledge that I have. I believe I can explain to someone in terms the average person could understand. Succeeding in this is a very unnerving feeling for me .Shoots holes in a lot of my own beliefs.:eek:t:Sorry.
 

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They are in a secret location and nobody else is allowed to have a look? Sounds very secret squirrel! ;)

A lot of the queen cells die prior to hatching? That's what happens when the eggs are laid by a laying worker and they are drones.
 

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Couple of days ago I saw something weird. Eggs in the honey box, egss in the brood box, and a new queen excluder between. What? The interesting thing was that the queen was not in the honey box, she was down. Weird, but finally I found a reasonable explanation: the top box had an entrance which was not fully closed as it should have been. She probbaly went out of the top box, walked down and went back into the brood box.
 

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Drones don't produce workers now do they.Never been to New Zealand never met anyone one from New Zealand therefore New Zealand or people from don't exist. Wrong I'm not that narrow minded is the best way to put it.Obviosly went over your head. What you're talking about isn't Thelytoky.Need to read up on it! As I said the skeptics come out of the wood work.Crossing Cape bees with European bees need to read up on that also.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
I posted this observation because I was looking for someone with experience to weigh in on the bet on if I get a queen,,,
Everything I have read and understand says no.
After reading Oldtimers responses, I clearly understand that I should not bet a dime...

I have a couple of pics on my cell phone of the frame.... And will take better ones today.

If they are queens, they should hatch on Sunday....
 

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Survivorbees, I think that your queen cells are genuine queen cells. Because if I understand what you wrote correctly, while the bees were queenless they had a choice of plenty of suitable larvae to build queen cells from, so they would not have used drone larvae, that only happens in hopelessly queenless colonies with no worker larvae they can use.

How the eggs got to that location I don't know without seeing the hive, however as I understand you, the comb was in the hive with the queen, and bees building queen cells for whatever reason will often build them on the bottom of a comb be it worker or drone & then get the queen to lay in them. This is much more likely, than the bees moving eggs. Be interested to see your pics.
 

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>Can workers move an egg into a queen cell

It has never been documented and I do not think they can. First, how would they glue it down again? The queen lays the egg with the "glue" on the end of it. Workers have nothing of the sort.

>Hi, 3rd year beek, working on making a couple queens well before a split.
10 days ago, I removed the queen and 5 frames into a temporary nuc.
Then I chose some of the tiniest larva I could see, and tore down the cell walls below them to simulate a queen cell.
We had rotten weather, so I moved the nuc with the queen into my garage(I was afraid there was not enough bees to keep themselves warm)
After 3 full days, the nuc was reunited with the original hive, on the bottom board, with a queen excluder on top, then the rest of the hive.
4 days ago I pulled out the frame that had been prepped by cutting off the lower cell walls,,,, they were almost 100% repaired, with large grubs or capped brood! Oh well, my bees must not be on the 'net or read the same books I do.....

Or they were not queenless. Many hives have more than one queen in them...

> So today, I make the split, find the queen, and some emerging brood and stuff and move her out for good,
And on the bottom edge of drone comb, drone only, no capped workers,
Is 2 nicely capped queen cells.
How were fertilized eggs THERE ?

You don't explain why you think there couldn't be. It's on the other side of the excluder from the queen? 10 days ago she was laying here. 10 days ago they could have been eggs and 6 days from now they could emerge.

The typical argument for them moving eggs is finding eggs on the other side of an excluder. This is often from another queen or a laying worker. A queenright booming hive has about 60 laying workers on the average. Then if they are fertile eggs on the other side of the excluder they think that proves they were moved. But you are still assuming a mechanism that has been watched for and experiments set up to try to prove and yet has never been observed, rather than one that, even if there was not another queen, has been observed and documented--Thelytoky.
 

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