[davemal]

I have a double and a triple that need a new queen. Mid-MD. 10-frame deeps. I have some nice 5-frame deep nucs just getting started with new mated queens that are laying well. I was going to do a newspaper combine with the nuc having the queen on top. Rather than removing the queen from the nuc and caging her with attendants before introducing her, I was just going to drop the entire nuc into the middle of the top brood chamber after doing the newspaper combine. Is that the best way to introduce a queen that already laying in her nuc into a double or triple?

 

[Vance G]

The way I have seen commercial operators requeen queenless colonies, is to remove five frames of the beneficiary and liberally sprinkle powdered sugar on the tops of all frames and the open sides in the exposed middle. Do the same to the nuc and drop it in as undisturbed as you can. This way the nuc has the ability to protect their queen and by the time the powdered sugar is cleaned up, there smell has merged. Works for me.

 

[Gray Goose]

if you are finding and removing the original queen then yes.
Else they may fight....

GG

 

[LAlldredge]

I think your train of thought is a good one. I've seen the pro's do the newspaper combine like you are talking. So- on top of your existing brood boxes that are queenless- lay down newspaper, then a QE. Put a full size box over the top, take out the middle frames and insert your nuc frames within in that box in the middle. The queen pheromone and brood pheromone should prevail and the newspaper will take them a while to chew through to make introduction less risky. I think this is what you're saying already but I wanted to articulate it to be sure I'm understanding what you're writing.

 

[davemal]

I think your train of thought is a good one. I've seen the pro's do the newspaper combine like you are talking. So- on top of your existing brood boxes that are queenless- lay down newspaper, then a QE. Put a full size box over the top, take out the middle frames and insert your nuc frames within in that box in the middle. The queen pheromone and brood pheromone should prevail and the newspaper will take them a while to chew through to make introduction less risky. I think this is what you're saying already but I wanted to articulate it to be sure I'm understanding what you're writing.

You are close. First, I have seen others use a QE on top of the combining newspaper. What is the reason for using a QE? In my case, the bottom is queenless so no QE would is needed, right? Regarding woodenware, I made an adapter out of a migratory cover. Basically, I cut a rectangular hole in it to receive a five frame nuc. So, I do not use a full size box to hold the nuc frames. Because I have an adapter, I use the 5-frame nuc box as-is and place in the adapter over newspaper. The idea of using powdered sugar to forgo even the newspaper combining is interesting.

 

[LAlldredge]

You are close. First, I have seen others use a QE on top of the combining newspaper. What is the reason for using a QE? In my case, the bottom is queenless so no QE would is needed, right? Regarding woodenware, I made an adapter out of a migratory cover. Basically, I cut a rectangular hole in it to receive a five frame nuc. So, I do not use a full size box to hold the nuc frames. Because I have an adapter, I use the 5-frame nuc box as-is and place in the adapter over newspaper. The idea of using powdered sugar to forgo even the newspaper combining is interesting.

The adapter sounds interesting and since the pheromone scent is the big thing I don't think it would make a difference. You're right that technically since there is no queen in the lower boxes what is the value? Maybe not allowing your queen down and slowing the procedure down as they chew through and make their way through the excluder. Boy, if it were my hive I would still use the QE just in case you have some cranky forager bees in the bottom that need time and an attitude adjustment before they move up.

 

[AnVil]

You are close. First, I have seen others use a QE on top of the combining newspaper. What is the reason for using a QE? In my case, the bottom is queenless so no QE would is needed, right? Regarding woodenware, I made an adapter out of a migratory cover. Basically, I cut a rectangular hole in it to receive a five frame nuc. So, I do not use a full size box to hold the nuc frames. Because I have an adapter, I use the 5-frame nuc box as-is and place in the adapter over newspaper. The idea of using powdered sugar to forgo even the newspaper combining is interesting.

You might be mixing with a use-case when you would want to strengthen your smaller hive/nuc and placed it on top of Q-right strong hive. In this case you would put newspaper and QE, spray something nice on the newspaper, put your nuc on to and close the hive. Nurse bees would come up and help top queen to attend the brood and queens would never get to each others to fight.

 

[Steve in PA]

Screen Combine, almost zero chance of the new queen being killed.

 

[crofter]

The queen excluder might serve to keep the queen from venturing down into new territory and showing off her authority. Let that mellow for a bit.

 

[WWBee]

Micheal Palmer advice that I have used several times successfully is to take the laying queen from your nuc and directly release her into the queenless hive.

 

[davemal]

Micheal Palmer advice that I have used several times successfully is to take the laying queen from your nuc and directly release her into the queenless hive.

This really caught my attention. If direct release into a queenless hive is doable, why all the fuss about cages and corks and candy end and leaving for three days. I am missing something here. Even Michael Palmer has a YouTube video describing how to tell if a caged queen is or is not being accepted by the queenless population. Is not taking a laying queen from a nuc and directly releasing her into the queenless hive fraught with danger?

 

[WWBee]

Cant find the MP reference but it has to do with the caged queens are not really laying and the queen removed from the nuc and quickly directly released is laying . I have done this 4 or 5 times in my 30 or so hive operation with 100 percent success , but I am no expert and if MP says it usually works that's good enough for me.

 

[cconnell]

Am I missing something? Davemal's process sounds like a normal newspaper combine to me, simply using a nuc instead of a 10-frame box. Does the number of bees in each colony make a difference in this type of combine? I've used the newspaper method for a number of combines and it's always worked. I've combined colonies of different sizes with this method and never seems to have any problems. I guess if you are really concerned, you could use 2 sheets of newspaper to slow them down a little bit more.

 

[minz]

Newspaper works well. Just did one about 2 days ago. If there are other bees in the other 5 frames just shake them in front of the hive. I also like to put a small tear in the paper (poke) it with the end of the hive tool.
As said make certain you are queenless.

 

[rbaillar]

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