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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Suppose you are making queens. You have bad hives that you want to treat for varroa (with an artificial brood break) and requeen. You want to breed from and not treat your good hives. How do you do this?

The goal for bad hives
  1. Apply the treatment.
  2. requeen

My simplified definition of a brood break
  1. A period of time when a colony does't have a laying queen
  2. During this time, I'm assuming that any brood added to the colony is older than the youngest brood in the colony.

Assumptions
  1. Your bees are somewhat hygienic. Some overwintered TF (treatment free).
  2. Neighbors have non-hygienic bees.
  3. You graft from good hives on Day 0.
 

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You need to re-ask the question.
I am not understanding what is it you are asking.
WHO is to receive a brood break?
If you are talking about a hive re-queening - why "mating queens" is pulled into here?

Mating queens assumes you produce those queens somehow - which usually means queen-less resource hive(s) (not getting into starter/finisher woods for now).
Queen-less resource hive does not by default mean it is getting a brood break (as you could be continuously adding to it brood frames for population support).
However, if such resource is not continuously fed in brood-frames then it will get brood break.

Anyway, formulate your question properly.
No need for the potential respondents be doing the guessing game.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Here are ideas for using a bad hive for 1 or more mating colonies. For these examples we assume its 1 mating colony.
  1. Kill the bad queen. Add a QC (queen cell) the same day.
  2. Kill the queen on day x. Add a QC.

For idea 2
  1. When do you kill the bad queen (so the good one hatches first)?
  2. Will the bad QCs be destroyed?
  3. idea: Give the bad hive extra space when they make QCs.

Assumptions for idea for idea 2
  1. This lowers the quantity/quality of QCs.
  2. When you add a good queen cell, they will be more likely to destroy the bad ones.
 

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Am not playing the guessing game.

Define your understanding of a "brood break" to begin with and maybe that gets you going.
 

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welp now i am lost
 

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Am not playing the guessing game.

Define your understanding of a "brood break" to begin with and maybe that gets you going.
Just as a starting point - Mel D. defines a "brood break" as a period of time from the point of queen removal (however that is done) to the point of hive having a laying queen again by its own means (hive raised its own queen from very young larva).

This basically means about 3-4 weeks of capped brood being absent in a hive.
That is a pretty standard understanding of a "brood break" which has meaningful mite treatment capacity.
So the length of the "brood break" is significant if one to care for the treatment affect.
A very short brood break is close to meaningless in that regard.

Unsure how most of the Qs above are relevant.
 

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Here are ideas for using a bad hive for 1 or more mating colonies. For these examples we assume its 1 mating colony.
  1. Kill the bad queen. Add a QC (queen cell) the same day. so the cell is assumed 13-15 days old, hatch and mate in 14 days so the "break" is only 14-21 days
  2. Kill the queen on day x. Add a QC.

For idea 2
  1. When do you kill the bad queen (so the good one hatches first)? before the day 16 when it hatches.
  2. Will the bad QCs be destroyed? not on their own, more likely they like their own and tear down the introduced one.
  3. idea: Give the bad hive extra space when they make QCs. what would the space be for ?nectar?

Assumptions for idea for idea 2
  1. This lowers the quantity/quality of QCs. " this" is ?
  2. When you add a good queen cell, they will be more likely to destroy the bad ones. why, they do not know good from Bad.
I will try to follow a bit here David

Added some comment above.

If you want a brood break and have the need to have them not raise thier own queen AND need the resources of the bad hive to pull it off. I think this is your intent.
I would think you pull the bad queens, At this moment you have some new eggs, 2 day larvae "can" be used, on day 6 assuming the queen pull day was 0, you would go in and remove all attempts at making a queen, re do at day 9 to be "certain"

In parallel be making the good queens, at a similar day like day 3 graft.
Oncce the bad hive become hopelessly queen less intro the good cell and let it hatch. around like maybe day 10.
Conceptually, the brood break with OTS has the queen die and the new queen be started same time, from egg to laying queen is 30 Is days, enough for the brood break.

now if you plan OTS or Graft or walk away split then the exact process would differ, but the goal is kill queen, let them make a replacement. You just want to do an egg swap in as well, so the timing would need to keep all that in mind.

Another way if you have an almost equal number of hives is kill bad queen, combine with Good Hive (newspaper) wait for a week , then do the splitting, post any bad egg or larvae being usable for a new queen.

Howevr with all that said IMO a brood break is a treatment so I would likely just hatch the good queens "while" vaping the bad hives every 3 days x 7 cycles, when she is laying requeen them. placing the good queen in a mitless hive and let them rip.
End result is similar, and you get a month more egg laying out of the bad queens.

GG
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Mel D. defines a "brood break" as a period of time from the point of queen removal (however that is done) to the point of hive having a laying queen again by its own means
I added my brood break definition.

I could do this:
Kill the bad queen. Let them make a queen. Kill the new queen and replace it.

One advantage is not having to look for QCs to kill. This technique could also be modified for using the bad hive to fill queen castles.
 

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I added my brood break definition.

I could do this:
Kill the bad queen. Let them make a queen. Kill the new queen and replace it.

One advantage is not having to look for QCs to kill. This technique could also be modified for using the bad hive to fill queen castles.
Should work but why - "Kill the new queen and replace it."
Looking for QCs is simpler than looking for a young runny queen most every time.
Besides, a queen can entirely co-exist with QCs for a period of time - still must look for either anyway to verify.

Time your project so to remove the QCs before they hatch - easier than looking for a young queen.
Once the QCs removed, give them 1-2 days to panic.
Then give a new queen in a cage; observe if they like it (in case you missed something).
IF they like the offered queen - release however you like (bee self-release OR you do it).
 

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BTW, a target queen-less hive is a very good tool to raise the queens (queen-less starter/finisher).
This is exactly what I have done just now.
They have been queen-less for about 3 weeks while raising "select" QCs for me - well used brood-break.
 

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The goal for bad hives
  1. Apply the treatment.
  2. requeen
Assumptions
  1. Your bees are somewhat hygienic. Some overwintered TF (treatment free).
  2. Neighbors have non-hygienic bees.
  3. You graft from good hives on Day 0.
Question. So you re-queen - where are the drones coming from ?

One of the reasons I am so pessimistic about the whole concept of TF is that Beekeeping is rarely under the control or significant influence of one individual. For the vast majority of people Beekeeping is a regional activity: what you do affects beekeepers in your region, and what they do will affect you. In this regard, Beekeeping is wholly unlike any other form of animal husbandry.
LJ
 
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