[philip.devos]

So yesterday I was able to find and mark my queen in my one booming hive.

While the paint was drying on her I rearranged frames and split my hive (walk-away). I pulled 2 deep frames loaded with capped worker and some capped drone brood, with bees, one deep frame loaded with mostly pollen with bees and one deep frame which was a mixture of pollen and nectar with bees. I also placed a medium frame where I had found the queen into the new split and filled out the box with 2 foundationless frames and one plastic frame. This medium has numerous eggs which the queen had laid. I should have left that frame in the old hive and put the queen in the new split.

Unfortunately for some reason I cannot comprehend now I put the queen BACK into the old hive rather than putting her in the new split.

The old hive has 2 deep boxes plus the medium on top.

The "split" is one deep.

I suppose many of the girls will be making their way back to the hive with the queen. So now I am wondering what to do, if anything. It is raining off and on today, and a strong front is coming in this afternoon, with temps dropping to 25 to 30 F tonight, so I am thinking of not doing anything until warm weather returns on Thursday.

I am thinking of finding the queen, and pulling whichever box she is in, and doing a newspaper combine of that box with the "split". I would think that would stabilize things a bit and cut way down on bees returning to the old hive.

I would appreciate any opinions as to what would be the best course of action.

 

[crabbydad]

hi phil,
from your description, you put the frame with eggs and the queen back in the original hive. does the split have any eggs? if so you may discover a queen cell started when you check on thursday. if they have started a queen cell and they have plenty of bees, i would close them up and let them raise a queen, but i'm sure others with more experience can give better advise. i was going to do splits yesterday also, but it was very windy and the cold front coming in made me change my mind.plus, i've only seen 1 flying drone

 

[Vance G]

When you can get back in the split off group, look for queen cells. If you can't find any I would just reunite the two. If you have queen cells, take another couple frames of wet brood and gently shake or brush them into the split. If you have no cells, I might just recombine the two.

 

[Acebird]

I was going to suggest a bone head fix. Just run out there and take the medium off the old hive and put it on the split. But Now I am not sure what you did.

You said you took a medium frame of eggs and put it in the split but the split doesn't have the medium box so could you clarify that?

 

[philip.devos]

hi phil,
from your description, you put the frame with eggs and the queen back in the original hive. does the split have any eggs? if so you may discover a queen cell started when you check on thursday. if they have started a queen cell and they have plenty of bees, i would close them up and let them raise a queen, but i'm sure others with more experience can give better advise. i was going to do splits yesterday also, but it was very windy and the cold front coming in made me change my mind.plus, i've only seen 1 flying drone

Ace and Crabbydad, At least I did put the frame with the eggs onto the split, and not back where I replaced the queen. When the weather gets warm I will take a look at that frame to see if there are any queen cells developing. Unfortunately weather has acted against going in sooner. Friday the winds are light and the temp is forecast to be near 60, I will also add some pollen sub then. I imagine the eggs will hatch tomorrow or Friday.

Thanks for the input.

Phil

 

[NewJoe]

if you left them both at least some eggs...then they will sort it out!

 

[Acebird]

I will also add some pollen sub then. Thanks for the input.

Phil

I don't understand pollen sub in the spring. To me it is like feeding sugar in a flow.

 

[Irmo]

The pollen sub will help if your split hives are near each other and one hive occupies the "original" location. That one will typically have more foragers (due to drifting) than the other for a time, so the pollen sub puts brood rearing protein in the house until some of the nurse bees graduate to foraging.

There are things you can do to try and manage the drifting of foragers back to the original location, if you have the space options available. If not you just try to live through it.

 

[Joseph Clemens]

I don't know about "bone-head" splits. This time of year I like to make my splits, by moving the old colony to a new location (nearby). I put a different box/super/hive at the old location, then I pick the queen and a comb of emerging brood, from the old hive and put them in the new hive. The old hive, at its new location, then has plenty of nurse/house bees to finish caring for the brood and to grow a new queen, plus resources to tide them over until they rebuild their field force. Meanwhile the field force can quickly refortify the new hive, at the old location, with stores, and the queen can fill the new combs with eggs, while the emerging nurse bees care for the brood.

I do, however, prefer to have ripe queen cells to add to the queenless portions, so they are queenright that much sooner and don't have the stress of growing their own queen cells. Only extremely strong colonies do much, even on a strong honey flow, without a queen.

Sometimes, if the original colony is very strong, there may be enough resources to split them into several new colonies. When I'm making up mating nucs, in a similar way, I only use three combs, one primarily of honey or nectar and pollen, one of sealed brood, and one empty comb. Then I give them a ripe queen cell. I can either keep them going to mate additional queens, or graduate them into their own 5-frame nucs. My main flow is in spring and early summer, boy do they keep me hopping, then.

 

[Michael Bush]

>I don't understand pollen sub in the spring. To me it is like feeding sugar in a flow.

It's like hauling "coals to Newcastle" or "another god to Athens"...

 

[Acebird]

The pollen sub will help if your split hives are near each other and one hive occupies the "original" location. That one will typically have more foragers (due to drifting) than the other for a time, so the pollen sub puts brood rearing protein in the house until some of the nurse bees graduate to foraging.

A split hive with no queen is not going to raise any brood. I would rather add more bees than add a pollen sub. in a time of good and plenty.

 

[Beeonefarms]

I do appreciate all the input and how you explained how it can be done. I look forward to using this knowledge in the upcoming season and season to come. Hurry up Joe with that website so I have another knowledge base to learn from.


Randy Oliver Mckinney
Beeonefarms.net

 

[BeeCurious]

A split hive with no queen is not going to raise any brood.

Of course brood will be raised...

Larvae will continue to be fed.

 

[Acebird]

Of course brood will be raised...

Larvae will continue to be fed.

I should have said new brood, you are correct. The existing brood will already have an abundance of stored pollen before the split was made. The nurse bees will quickly turn to foragers and most likely this hive will start bringing in an abundance of stores greater than the hives next to it still consuming theirs. This has been my experience.

 

[Irmo]

I should have said new brood, you are correct. The existing brood will already have an abundance of stored pollen before the split was made.

Or, if you introduce a new queen rather than waiting for the split to raise their own there will be new brood. That's what I did, but I realize I didn't mention that. I also plan to pull out the patties once I see foraging activity at the front of the hive. Actually I say patties, but it was really two pieces cut from a whole patty, not the whole thing.

 

[Rader Sidetrack]

The existing brood will already have an abundance of stored pollen before the split was made.

Brood doesn't eat pollen.

Brood eat royal jelly, which is what the nurse bees are for - to produce royal jelly.

 

[Acebird]

I think they eat bee bread made from pollen and honey.

 

[Rader Sidetrack]

Perhaps you could explain how larva eat bee bread? :scratch:

Larva are not exactly mobile - they are stuck in their cell.

 

[dynemd]

Per Glenn Apiaries website:
"At this point it is known as bee bread and is ready for use as food. Nurse bees who are only 5-15 days old, will eat this pollen which will then be converted into royal jelly by a special gland in their head, this will be fed to the young larva for three days. If the royal jelly is fed beyond three days, the larva will begin development as a queen bees."
LINK

 

[tommyt]

What ever you do when you go back to see What you've done
DON'T move that queen back
If you feel you need too, she will need to be caged and reintroduced
Or some other way of intro
I'm betting you have q cells
I don't have pictures on this pad however I do on another of
A frame of egg,larvae one morning the following eve cells where a half inch
Bees don't have an OFF switch nor go SLOW switch they are Busy bees

All the best on the Bone-head split