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Grozzie, what is a "box of stickies"?
A box of frames that were extracted. We do NOT set boxes out for the bees to 'clean up' after extracting, they are stored as wet frames that are 'sticky' with that last bit of honey still in there. when you put a box of stickies above the excluder, bees go thru immediately, the smell of the honey draws them up.

The key tho is getting to the point you have stickies to use. If all you have is fresh new frames, then no, an excluder is not going to be helpful, the bees wont go thru if there is nothing above to draw them up.
 

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I've had it work both ways. I don't run excluders unless I have a compelling reason (finish queens in the top of queen-right hive etc), so I only have a few in right now. If they are in 2 deeps now you can:

a. take out excluder for 3-4 days, then put back in making sure queen is below. Even if she puts some brood in your medium they will emerge in 21 days and they will use the cells for nectar afterward
b. put the medium in between both deeps (probably my choice) for 2-3 days. I can virtually guarantee they will at least begin to draw it out (but she will also lay some eggs in it). Then same thing, excluder back on under medium now moved to top.

I've had a time getting them started and always have to put a fairly finished frame or two above an excluder to begin. Bearing in mind what everyone else said, they only build cabinets when there are too many groceries. If they don't need the space they won't build on it.
 

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Gotcha, i assumed thats what you meant just hadnt heard them referred to as "stickys" so wanted to make sure i wasnt missing something
 

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A box of frames that were extracted. We do NOT set boxes out for the bees to 'clean up' after extracting, they are stored as wet frames that are 'sticky' with that last bit of honey still in there. when you put a box of stickies above the excluder, bees go thru immediately, the smell of the honey draws them up.

The key tho is getting to the point you have stickies to use. If all you have is fresh new frames, then no, an excluder is not going to be helpful, the bees wont go thru if there is nothing above to draw them up.
Agreed, without those wet frames/stickies, it might be best to remove the QE temporarily until they begin to build out the super. Worst case is a little brood in the super which can be hatched out later when the QE gets placed back, or one could just run without a QE for that hive.
 

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In my opinion, yes you did the right thing. But why not move them to new full size hives?

If you want to get the bees to draw on new foundation, pre-wax the foundation even if it's supposedly waxed already. Use a speedy roller frame with a foam roller. I do this with every frame because there's nothing that makes me more crazy than having foundation that the bees won't draw out completely because it's nothing but dry plastic. And remove the excluder. As I tell every "new" beekeeper...Would you rather the bees swarm or move up and use the super to expand the brood nest temporarily? But I'm in Florida so it's much more of a problem to keep them from swarming because they're constantly building and expanding.


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Thanks for the tip. Now I know how to do it! My bees will usually draw it out, but this would definitely speed things up.

On the issue of whether the bees will go up into an undrawn box of foundation, I think it has to do with the honey flow and hive strength. Big flow and lots of bees they will do it, but they may not with a lighter flow. Putting an excluder in between certainly wouldn't help in this process, IMO. That said, I always put a frame being used or a wet frame from extracting into a new box to encourage the bees to use it.
 

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Grozzie is just calling it like it is. Bees must perform. If they don't get a bee that does. We believe in genocide. Only the productive will survive.

Crazy Roland
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
In my opinion, yes you did the right thing. But why not move them to new full size hives?

If you want to get the bees to draw on new foundation, pre-wax the foundation even if it's supposedly waxed already. Use a speedy roller frame with a foam roller. I do this with every frame because there's nothing that makes me more crazy than having foundation that the bees won't draw out completely because it's nothing but dry plastic. And remove the excluder. As I tell every "new" beekeeper...Would you rather the bees swarm or move up and use the super to expand the brood nest temporarily? But I'm in Florida so it's much more of a problem to keep them from swarming because they're constantly building and expanding.

In my opinion, yes you did the right thing. But why not move them to new full size hives?

If you want to get the bees to draw on new foundation, pre-wax the foundation even if it's supposedly waxed already. Use a speedy roller frame with a foam roller. I do this with every frame because there's nothing that makes me more crazy than having foundation that the bees won't draw out completely because it's nothing but dry plastic. And remove the excluder. As I tell every "new" beekeeper...Would you rather the bees swarm or move up and use the super to expand the brood nest temporarily? But I'm in Florida so it's much more of a problem to keep them from swarming because they're constantly building and expanding.


View attachment 64608 View attachment 64609
In my opinion, yes you did the right thing. But why not move them to new full size hives?

If you want to get the bees to draw on new foundation, pre-wax the foundation even if it's supposedly waxed already. Use a speedy roller frame with a foam roller. I do this with every frame because there's nothing that makes me more crazy than having foundation that the bees won't draw out completely because it's nothing but dry plastic. And remove the excluder. As I tell every "new" beekeeper...Would you rather the bees swarm or move up and use the super to expand the brood nest temporarily? But I'm in Florida so it's much more of a problem to keep them from swarming because they're constantly building and expanding.


View attachment 64608 View attachment 64609
View attachment 64608 View attachment 64609
Thanks for the reply. My nucs are now double brood boxes. I put on a med. super of waxed foundation.I did take the excluders out as I leave a med. super on the double brood chamber on for winter. Flow will be done here shortly as we are in a drought.I will start feeding after the flow to help with comb building. The bees did move up after I took the excluder off. KD
 

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Grozzie is just calling it like it is. Bees must perform. If they don't get a bee that does. We believe in genocide. Only the productive will survive.

Crazy Roland
I prefer requeening to genocide if it is an otherwise healthy hive.
 

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This is an interesting and entertaining thread, I'll stick around for the fireworks.

Don't forget to give them stickies.
 

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So about a week ago i thought id trick them...simply put a medium super frame down in the brood box to get drawn & then once done move it up into the super & bobs your uncle....last night i checked the progress....
They sure showed me lol
64624
 

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So about a week ago i thought id trick them...simply put a medium super frame down in the brood box to get drawn & then once done move it up into the super & bobs your uncle....last night i checked the progress....
They sure showed me lol View attachment 64624
so there is your "clue" now you know more than before your "experiment"


GG
 

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Indeed! However since im a man & have to figure things out the hard way i think i wanna try again using a foundationless frame, popsicle stick & some wax. Just to completely rule out the experiment as a fail. For all i know my bees are "new age" & just dont like plastic lol
 

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Grozzie, what is a "box of stickies"?
Not to speak for him, but I'm guessing he means wet frames after extraction. Or perhaps just frames of open honey.
Edit: opps, there was another page apparently :D

The idea is that you give the bees something to do in or above the boxes and they will see it as space. I've always just dropped a frame with open brood on it in the box. If it's a super, just temporarily hang a deep frame from it. you'll have free form comb to deal with on the bottom when you go to move it back down. But that's not too bad to deal with as long as you don't leave it for weeks.
 

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Indeed! However since im a man & have to figure things out the hard way i think i wanna try again using a foundationless frame, popsicle stick & some wax. Just to completely rule out the experiment as a fail. For all i know my bees are "new age" & just dont like plastic lol
or maybe try beeswax foundation.................................

GG
 

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Indeed! However since im a man & have to figure things out the hard way i think i wanna try again using a foundationless frame, popsicle stick & some wax. Just to completely rule out the experiment as a fail. For all i know my bees are "new age" & just dont like plastic lol
That's drone comb they drew. They'd likely draw about an entire frame of drone comb in a foundationless frame. I do this in most all my colonies as it keeps burr comb almost non-existent and I absolutely love that. Over the years of doing dumb stuff like trying to do 100% foundationless, I have a number of drone frames that I can distribute around. It works, and I like the idea of having more of my drones around to try and sway genetics even if that's peeing in the wind statistically speaking.

The plastic foundation also looks like it need more wax. Not sure where it's from, but I went to Acorn foundation about four years ago and haven't looked back. It's awesome stuff.
 

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Granted ive been rolling melted beeswax on the foundations, are you saying their more likely to draw if just using straight wax foundation?
 

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Granted ive been rolling melted beeswax on the foundations, are you saying their more likely to draw if just using straight wax foundation?
I've never used beeswax foundation, but if I had to guess. Acceptance of beeswax vs plastic is way higher. But well-wax plastic, I would guess, comes pretty close to the same acceptance as beeswax without some of the drawbacks. Plastics have drawbacks of their own, no doubt.

Take a look at the post earlier in this thread of how much wax is on that frame. I've never gone that wild, but you very much want to see a buildup of wax on the edges of the cells. A good solid build up. To put it in perspective. I used to go through about 8 or 9 pounds of beeswax to coat 100 deep frames. Foam roller works great. I used to do a couple coats at least. And it might be several passes with the foam roller per coat.
 

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Hah yea ive noticed...i use a little crockpot & foam roller & burn through my burr comb as quick as i get it, bought a pound online thinking it would last forever...yea...went through half of it last night waxing a medium box of frames, amazing how much you go through! Now granted after this year once i have a supply of drawn frames everything will go much quicker im aware. I really cant complain with the progress theyve made this first year, plus contending with my inexperience lol
 

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HOWEVER....something my father just pointed out....what little comb they did draw ON the frame is actually the first letter of my last name so....hell yea i have the smartest bees ever lmao!
 
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