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Discussion Starter #1
Im have been in the protein patty kind of mood this last week.

I found this on Mann Lakes website;

FD-330 Soft Patties 45 lb bulk box
We've been working hard to get you the softer yet
nutritionally complete patty you've been asking for.

Formulated to meet the nutritional needs of honey bees
Balanced amino acid profile
Contains Pro-Health feeding stimulant to speed consumption and aid in digestive tract health
Formulated with Probiotics!!
Ultra fine milling to ensure complete digestibility
Bulk patty format means no paper to mess with
Soft formula presses between boxes with ease
Ideal for those beekeepers looking to feed 3-5 lbs per feeding
Priced to provide an excellent performance to cost ratio


US price per lbs is $1.10.

has anyone used this Sub? How well do the bees eat it? Does it dry out?
 

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I've never used the pre-made patties. I buy the dry and mix it.

The bees take it as well as any...and I've used several. Most colonies gobble it down, while some seemingly ignore it. Same with every brand I've used. Does it work? How would one know? The take it down, and build up well, but would they have built up anyway?

Mix it wet enough and it won't dry out before they take it.
 

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I used 750 lbs of it last year(it was on sale ) so thought I'd try some. It was easy to work with (plastic bag inside a cardboard box)and the bees ate it all with no waste. They kept on raising brood in a pollen dearth so figured it was ok. But I can mix my own with yeast or Beepro dry ingredient as the base at a lower cost ,so thats what I do.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
>>Mix it wet enough and it won't dry out before they take it.<<

Im looking for a Sub that is soft, will not dry out, does not run or stick and is very palatable to the bees.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
loggermike do you add any oils to your mix?
what do you think about the advertised pro biotics in this mix?
 

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Yes ,I add a quart each of canola and corn oil to each batch , plus some animal probiotics "Probios® Dispersable Powder" (not sure if this helps, but no downside I could tell) and the last nosema check I did showed very few spores. But that could be from other factors.
I dont know which probiotics are in Mann Lakes sub,if its the animal version, likely these aren't the correct strains for bees anyways. Maybe someone could find out?
 

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I bought about 500 lbs. of this last year, and am looking to do the same this year. The bees seem to love it. When placed between the brood chambers they devour it. Since it goes by rather quickly it's nice to be able to put 3-5 lbs. at a time.

I've had it dry out on weak (queenless I suppose) nucs after sitting there for 3 weeks - 1 month. Other than that they always eat it 100%.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Great feed back guys.

anyway, Im also playing around with mixing up some very basic patty recipes. I'm going to ask for some feed back here, from you protein sub mixing pro's, so bear with me and my questions. I'm just trying to figure somethings out. I am very unhappy with the patties I have available to buy right now, though I have not tried out this last Mann Lake soft Sub mix.

What Im looking for a Sub that is soft, will not dry out, does not run or stick and is very palatable to the bees.

So what I'm finding while I'm mixing up 1/2 lbs batches in the kitchen is most all of the equation here can be solved with the oil content in the patty.
Does the increased amount of oil decrease the palatability of the patty?
 

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Not at the level I use. Others use more and I have not heard of problems with the bees eating it. I do not know at what amount of oil it would be unpalatable to bees, but there must be an upper limit!
 

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A 50 lbs bag of yeast or beepro, and around 10 gallons of syrup(half sucrose and half corn)plus other;) ingredients. I have been using a couple of cement mixers for this, but its really too slow and I need to get a mortar mixer of some sort to mix it faster and in bigger batches.

Any suggestions on a good mortar mixer for this?
 

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I'm far from a Pro!
The things I think help keep desired consistency.
I found that products with soy flour seemed to dry out the quickest. I don't use it.
I also use oil on the higher % side.
I took 1/2 the sugar I use and inverted it. (Heat with acid).

I also use secret ingredients that my cousin told me about. She works as a waitress in Amador county and overheard a customer talking.
 

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Not sure this totally applies to your mixtures, but from what i've seen on several other postings, if you keep your sugar water temp at 235 degrees instead of the usual 242 the product seems to stay 'softer'. I tried a beepro/sugar water mixture a couple of weeks ago on a single hive and they devoured it with a week. I took the beepro receipe, cut it in 1/2, poured it into 2 11x14 pans to keep it 'thinner' and after it cooled - cut 'slices' which are about 2" wide x 11" and put in the hive over the brood. Within 1 week they consumed 1 slice, and they consumed the 2nd slice in 4 days. brood has increased, which is what I wanted - to jump start the hive as this was one of my smaller hives to over winter.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Wow Mike, thats what I have been looking for! I visit Randys site all the time, but missed that page!

Im seeing Inedible Dried eggs as being one of the mixes to boost protien. Also Brewers Yeast as the main source of protein.

Looks like Im going to be experimenting on a few recipes this spring!

One question,
David Hackenberg’s formula shows not only citric acid but he actually tossed in a whole lemon. Why?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Randy Oliver has been an inspiration to me and I see he has been an inspiration to other beekeepers as well.
Why? Because he recognizes issues in our beekeeping industry and openly looks for solutions. His relentless search for answers is refreshing to me as many of the questions he is seeking to answer is exactly the same ones Im trying to answer. Has anyone noticed how open and forth coming he is with everything he does? No secrets, no hidden agenda, just good old beekeeping trial, test and discussion. One thing I notice in the beekeeping community is that so many beekeepers keep everything close to their chest. No sharing, everyone using their own trade secrets. And what advantage does that exactly provide? Non,
(except for the fellow selling his trade secrets, thats a different)

One thing I like about this beesource forum is the open discussion and sharing of ideas. Its a great resource for anyone seeking out answers!!
 

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I add both citric acid and vitamin c. Lemon,I dont know. Citrus bioflavonoids maybe?
Never used inedible whole eggs , but did use dried egg yolk for a few years, along with irradiated pollen ,when it was available.

I know I said there was no waste with Mann lakes soft bulk. But as anyone knows, the weak and queenless hives will not use as much and it will dry out if not removed. But I have also seen hives with drone layers gobble up 3 pounds in a week. The result is LOTS more drone brood!
 
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