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Spadeapiaries, if I were to be taking advice from someone, it would be the one that had a successful design and was selling it with scores of happy customers. Oh, that would be johno or biermann here on Beesource. What I think John was alluding to was that you are reinventing the wheel by trial and error instead of following in the footsteps of those that have already been there and done that.
 

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Spadeapiaries, if I were to be taking advice from someone, it would be the one that had a successful design and was selling it with scores of happy customers. Oh, that would be johno or biermann here on Beesource. What I think John was alluding to was that you are reinventing the wheel by trial and error instead of following in the footsteps of those that have already been there and done that.
Dad had a saying "Learn from other peoples mistakes; A man does not live long enough to make them all himself!

I have made a number of different ones starting with bowl or wand types 12 v then on to the band heater types. There are lots of little details that make big differences in workability. It can be quite a head banger just to select the proper PID temperature controller and program it. I decided to buy one for my son for Christmas this past year. Being in Canada it was less fuss for me to give the nod to Biermann than bring the one in from Johno in the US. I tried it out and my DIY units are now on the shelf for emergency! Now I have to order another one for my son.
 

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I have read all 51 pages of this thread several times and many others. Johno has a great design and has captured the low end market. I have made one like his and one with a heat sink and like the heat sink better.

The $500.00 model has a very good following also but on the top end of the market.
I think I can do as good and maybe improve the weak copper pipe issues I've read about.

Having a nice lathe is key and my CNC mill will put some nice finishing touches on.
Mine will cost more to make than Johno's but I think that will show. A machined spacer instead of 3 stacked nuts, if I can work it out steel pipes instead of soft copper, teflon caps with O-rings, and that heat sink.
The 56% silver solder is expensive but if it works with steel pipes it will be worth it. If I need to go with a Stainless Steel pot to get a steel or SS pipe to work I have a never ending supply.
 

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Basically for the copper vessel you do not get much better than a 11/4" copper coupling to which a metal disc can be welded with silfos, The outlet tube should be no further than 2" long from where it joins to the hottest part of the bowl, 1/4" or 3/16" up to you although I found that with the 1/4" outlet I had more unsublimated crystals with the vapor. I now use a 1/4" bolt to hold the bowl off of the aluminum strip so there is only one nut between the bowl and the strip. An Uxcel thermocouple is bolted directly to the bottom of the bowl and I doubt that there could be any faster reaction to the temperature fluctuations than this system. The unit is heated by a 275 watt MX15006 11/2"x 11/2" band heater available from Plastic Process Equipment for around $15 plus shipping and it is insulated with 5/16" Grapho glass wound around the outside of the bowl. I do not think there is a vaporizer out there that will beat the heat up and recovery times of this setup remember efficiency at a reasonable price is what we are looking for. The temperature controller used is a relay operated unit which has served well and for this application a solid state relay is not required as it will only push up the price and size of the unit. As to having a large volume under the bowl for a heat sink, i cannot see any advantage to this, perhaps a disadvantage will be a slower movement in temperature due to the mass retaining the temperature whereas with a copper bottom I can see when the OA hits the bottom as the temperature immediately drops to around 300 degrees. I have also looked at providing a steel outlet on the Easy Vap which is easy as you can purchase rolls of copper coated brake tubing and I have made up one that I have used but feel if not used with the respect it needs that instead of bending the outlet tube the copper bowl could be damaged.
 

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Aylett, VA 10-frame double deep Langstroth
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The 56% Ag should work fine. I have used 15% on cast iron to Cu connections and used 45% on brass to brass connections that were small but had to be very strong. Even on the ProVap, the tube is a weak point that bends if you allow the vaporizer to hang in the hole.
I misunderstood and did not realize you were attempting to improve the existing designs.
 

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Stainless steel has very poor heat conductance; less than 10% of copper's. That has implications in a discharge pipe or the bowl of the unit.

The silver brazing alloys have good behavior in acid environments but the Sil phos alloys do not. Most do not contain any silver at all; forget about the Sil part of the name. The phosphorus self fluxes on copper and high copper alloys but not with iron and stainless steel. Even if you flux it, the joints can fail in time. The genuine silver brazing alloys from 40 to 60% silver are the way to go. If your joints fit well a little bit goes a long way.

Biermanns design has the joints tig welded but not many have the equipment for that.
 

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Great information, thanks everyone.
 

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1 1/4" Stainless Steel dairy pipe, 1/4" Stainless Steel tubing, 56% silver solder, and MAP-Pro gas. Fastest easiest solder I've done so far.

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61171
 

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After a couple of revisions I think I finally have something I really like. I still might try to make a cup with the discharge tube at the bottom.
61173
61174
 

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That's a good looking box. 3d printed I'm guessing? I would love to get a dozen like it.
 

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Nice looking unit, I would worry about the heat from the aluminum bar softening the plastic and loosening the bar.
 

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Nice looking unit, I would worry about the heat from the aluminum bar softening the plastic and loosening the bar.
time will tell for sure but I ran a heat test at 450 for a little over an hour and the bar at the case was warm to the touch but not hot enough to burn you and the case still maintained its rigidity. I have been trying to come up with something use to isolate it from the case but couldn’t come up with anything that I liked that was readily available
 

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That's a good looking box. 3d printed I'm guessing? I would love to get a dozen like it.
yes, 3d printed using PLA filament. I would love a dozen of them to but unfortunately the guy printing them for me can’t provide that many since it takes so long to print them. Wish I was experienced with printing stuff.
 

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time will tell for sure but I ran a heat test at 450 for a little over an hour and the bar at the case was warm to the touch but not hot enough to burn you and the case still maintained its rigidity. I have been trying to come up with something use to isolate it from the case but couldn’t come up with anything that I liked that was readily available
I found some cheap teflon cutting boards and cut them into small squares on my table saw. So far they are working well for insulation but I haven't put a long day of vaping on them yet.
 

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yes, 3d printed using PLA filament. I would love a dozen of them to but unfortunately the guy printing them for me can’t provide that many since it takes so long to print them. Wish I was experienced with printing stuff.
My son runs a shop with several 3d printers but I think they have been shut down since this COVID thing started. If you had the printing program (CAD/CAM/ToolPaths?) I could see if he could run some for both of us. On long runs he set up the printers to run all night. It helps that he has maybe a half dozen 3d printers.
 

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I found some cheap teflon cutting boards and cut them into small squares on my table saw. So far they are working well for insulation but I haven't put a long day of vaping on them yet.
Good to know. What are you using for a bar? I am using just a standard 1 1/2” by 1/4” AL flat bar
 

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Good to know. What are you using for a bar? I am using just a standard 1 1/2” by 1/4” AL flat bar
1/8" X 1 1/4" galvanized steel flat bar. Just for ease of bending but with that box yours don't need bending and I like the look of aluminum. I do think Aluminum does transmit heat better but probably not enough difference over time to make or break which is best. I have a stack of those aluminum bars.
 

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1/8" X 1 1/4" galvanized steel flat bar. Just for ease of bending but with that box yours don't need bending and I like the look of aluminum. I do think Aluminum does transmit heat better but probably not enough difference over time to make or break which is best. I have a stack of those aluminum bars.
I thought about doing something similar but I am trying to build one that limits the amount of effort in assembly. Agree with the heat transfer but I was thinking that by using the larger thicker bar that it would take longer to heat up overall. With running it at 450 for the hour I figured that would be worst case most of the time since the temperature drops with each treatment and then has to build back up. So it doesn’t stay at a constant 450 over that time period.
 

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Great looking design Rogue! I have a 3d printed design where I can build the Vap in about 30 min each, though I have to wait for the 7 hour printed parts lol. The cook bowl is the only thing that takes me time but I can make one in about 15 min. I punch the disc for the copper bottom and brazing takes no time at all. I have the outlet tube exiting the bottom on my design.

As for the heat transfer from the bowl to the housing, I use the 1.5 AL bar as well and find it dissipates faster than the one inch bars due to the additional mass. I also was successful in eliminating the heat transfer by using a small ceramic spacer sandwiched inside of two nylon & stainless washers. That was more effort than it was worth in my opinion and I also had to ground the bowl since it was then suspended by the nylon & ceramic. Lots of extra work!

Also, I use PETG vs PLA. It is stronger and more heat resistant than PLA. I worried about the PLA warping in the sun. I saw some research that showed that the darker colors would absorb the heat and warp in one hour.

Rogue, how long does your design take to print? I‘m guessing 9-10 hours?

-j
 

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Great looking design Rogue! I have a 3d printed design where I can build the Vap in about 30 min each, though I have to wait for the 7 hour printed parts lol. The cook bowl is the only thing that takes me time but I can make one in about 15 min. I punch the disc for the copper bottom and brazing takes no time at all. I have the outlet tube exiting the bottom on my design.

As for the heat transfer from the bowl to the housing, I use the 1.5 AL bar as well and find it dissipates faster than the one inch bars due to the additional mass. I also was successful in eliminating the heat transfer by using a small ceramic spacer sandwiched inside of two nylon & stainless washers. That was more effort than it was worth in my opinion and I also had to ground the bowl since it was then suspended by the nylon & ceramic. Lots of extra work!

Also, I use PETG vs PLA. It is stronger and more heat resistant than PLA. I worried about the PLA warping in the sun. I saw some research that showed that the darker colors would absorb the heat and warp in one hour.

Rogue, how long does your design take to print? I‘m guessing 9-10 hours?

-j
I was mistaken with the PLA comment it is PETG material that is used. It is a pretty long print time for it. With the use of the 1.5” flat-bar did you stop using the ceramic spacers? I gave my first unit to a commercial beekeeping buddy and am waiting to hear back on his experience using it for treatments. I really feel like the heat transfer won’t be an issue but want some feedback from someone who will use it for the better part of a day at a time.
 
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