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Discussion Starter #961
Zadriel, the TA4-RNR has an internal relay for switching light loads, I use a 11/4" copper coupling with copper welded to the bottom and the 3/16" refrigeration copper tubing welded onto the coupling using Sta-silv and oxy acetylene. The band heater is a 275 watt heater from Plastic Process Equipment part # MX15006 at a cost of around $15. The thermocouple I get from Amazon and the rest is up to you to put together.
 

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Thank you so VERY MUCH for that! Quick question. Does this device need to be ordered WITH the TA4RNR?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MCWO35...colid=360GGVNYCHTB&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it


Zadriel, the TA4-RNR has an internal relay for switching light loads, I use a 11/4" copper coupling with copper welded to the bottom and the 3/16" refrigeration copper tubing welded onto the coupling using Sta-silv and oxy acetylene. The band heater is a 275 watt heater from Plastic Process Equipment part # MX15006 at a cost of around $15. The thermocouple I get from Amazon and the rest is up to you to put together.
 

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Discussion Starter #963
Zadriel there is no need for the solid state relay, the Mypin TA4-RNR has an internal relay for switching the band heater on and off. The contacts are rated at 5 amps resistive load and the 275 watt band heater draws only 2.3 amps. I have been using mine for about 3 years now and do not have any problems.
 

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I love the look of yours. Where'd you get that cool GOLD handle and holder?


Here are my costs and list of materials. I have not added the screws, tap, electrical cord and connectors as I have that or got it out of scrap equipment. Total is about $75, so it was not cheap and getting one from this board is worth the cost but without the fun of R&D and making one. You can see that PIDs on Ebay are very cheap. The seller actually gave me $5 back as the heat sink was not included. I do not pay shipping with MSCdirect.

Ebay:
TEMPCO Band Heater,2 In. Dia.,120V,900 Deg F, NHL00142 $27.91
REX-C100 Digital PID Temperature Controller Max 40A SSR K Thermocouple Heatsink $14.74
25A/40A 250V SSR-25DA SSR-40DA Solid State Relay Alloy Heat Sink $5.29
1/8" NPT MALE STRAIGHT TO 1/4" HOSE PORT NIPPLE RED ALUMINUM FINISH ADAPTER $4.36
Lowes
1/4-3-2 POPLAR PROJECT BOARD $1.81
1/4-IN-20 BRAD HOLE N TEE NT N3 Item #: 137342 $1.13
TRUSS COMBO MS 8-32X1/2 5-CT Item #: 15050 $1.28
Hillman 3-ft x 1-in Aluminum Metal Flat Bar $7.48
Mscdirect
MSC #*78142130******Latrobe Foundry -*1-1/4" Aluminum Pipe Coupling - 150 psi, F End Connection, Grade 6061-T6 $3.69
MSC #*78142692**Latrobe Foundry - 1-1/4" Aluminum Pipe Square Head Plug - 150 psi, M End Connection, Grade 356-F $6.35

Total: $74.04
 

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Thanks so much Johno! I would have just ordered one from you but I need to treat soon and so I'm venturing into building mine. Couldn't have done it without all your help and others on here.

I did see you had some nice blue looking caps and some white ones that looked like the oxpros lids... I've checked mocaps and just can't find them. Are you sourcing them from another place? I'd love to try the blue ones or even better the white ones. Thanks again!
Keith


Zadriel there is no need for the solid state relay, the Mypin TA4-RNR has an internal relay for switching the band heater on and off. The contacts are rated at 5 amps resistive load and the 275 watt band heater draws only 2.3 amps. I have been using mine for about 3 years now and do not have any problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #966
I gave up on the white silicone caps as the supplier was so unreliable, Blue caps are available from CA plugs you have to find hollow silicone plugs and choose the size that will fit your bowl unfortunately you will have to buy them by the hundred. I gave up on the Mocap plugs as the red oxide would wear off the plug and get into the OA. If you email me at [email protected] I can let you have smaller quantities of the blue silicone plugs that will fit into the 11/4" copper coupling. They measure top 1.625" x 1.313"
 

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Silicon plugs,

This is a comment from one of my customers:
good day. I have one of your oxalic acid units and have reviewed it on beesource. I love it and show it to all of my Nuc customers. I just wanted to follow up on how the caps are surviving from the abuse of treating my hundred plus hives. It appears that the red ones are actually lasting longer than the white!
Here his pictures
Red and White Plugs-1.jpg Red and White Plugs-2.jpg

I do wonder if we are using too high of a temperature and, I am not sure if everyone still operates with 400° F (204°C). I feel the time to vaporize 3 gram is not significantly longer at 375°F (191°C) and it may let the plugs survive a longer term. I am using K-type copper tubing since fall of 2019 for the 1.25" bowl and welded bottom. This seems to take slightly longer to head-up, but retains the heat better.

Machined plugs from Vespel® did last better, but the O-ring seal did not. It (Vespel®) has also a high price tag.

The CA and MOPAR plugs have satisfied me to date, but doing some hundred hives with a vaporizer is a different story then my few hobby hives.

Both companies did deliver fast and efficient, only advantage with CA Plugs is the larger cavity and I don't need to drill them open, so they are now my preferred plug by default.

JoergK.
 

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I gave up on the white silicone caps as the supplier was so unreliable, Blue caps are available from CA plugs you have to find hollow silicone plugs and choose the size that will fit your bowl unfortunately you will have to buy them by the hundred. I gave up on the Mocap plugs as the red oxide would wear off the plug and get into the OA. If you email me at [email protected] I can let you have smaller quantities of the blue silicone plugs that will fit into the 11/4" copper coupling. They measure top 1.625" x 1.313"
johno,
I think you should be nominated for and then selected as Beekeeper of the Year (really Beekeeper of the Decade ) for your selfless work in creating your band heater OA vaporizer and making the plans available, for FREE, to those who want to build it, and also offering the finished product to those who would rather purchase it ready to use at such a reasonable price. My hat is off to you.
Bravo johno, bravo!

clyderoad
 

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Discussion Starter #970
How long do your plugs last, that is the question. The answer is just how badly do you treat your plugs. The longer that plug stays on the hot vaporizer the shorter its lifespan. So my 12 treatments a year on around 50 hives those 6 plugs I have used will go into my second years treatments as they do not stay on the vaporizer for more than 30 seconds each treatment because I keep the bottom of my hot bowl very clean and when I invert the vaporizer and the OA falls to the bottom I see the temperature drop down to around 290 degrees and when it rises to 400 the cap and vaporizer comr off as there is no more OA on the bottom of the bowl. There still might be a little vapor around but it is from the condensed OA on the cap. To keep the bowl clean I use a small stainless steel brush and rotate it in the bowl as I move to the next hive and this breaks the oxidization layer on the bottom of the bowl and allows the heat to quickly transfer to the OA lying there. The dirty bowl is also the reason that I see so mane bent outlets from beeks beating on the cap when the temperature does not drop while the OA is probably lying on the oxidization layer and the heat is taking time to get to the OA. I must admit that my red caps also have lasted a long time as I no longer use them, when I used to clean out the inside of the hollow into the OA container the red oxide from those caps would fall into the OA and contaminate it and cause a heavier oxidization layer on the bottom of the bowl
 

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Ok I will admit to being the owner of the rough looking plugs Joerg shared. I just put them through a good bit of exercise 4 treatments of my 120 hives. I use about 8 plugs while treating and as I leave the unit in the entrance to get the next hive ready I will admit that sometimes it gets left in too long. Joerg all four of the white CA plugs have now failed but the ref Mopar ones are still working. I picked up some CAplugs samples and the dark blue one is degrading fast dropping blue into the OA. I'm liking the Mocap caps drilled out with a 7/8" bit as they are easier to fill. Imagine the thinner walls won't last as long plugs are cheap and think it's worth increased speed. Johno I'm going to do a better job of removing caps on time and also cleaning the inside of the bowl so it goes faster
 

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Discussion Starter #972
Ryan I believe the plugs I use are larger than the ones Joerg uses as the inside diameter of my bowl is 1 3/8" and I do not think that the little brushes I use will fit your bowl 20191028_192114.jpg But cleaning tje bottom of the bowl between treatments makes a considerable difference to the sublimation time. I have found that the silicone plugs that I use do wear but do not seem to contaminate the OA like the Mocap plugs did, also as they are larger I do not have to open up the hollows which can take around 3.5 to 4 grams of OA so the wall is also quite thick.
 

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Johno...I just started using a brush like that but the fit is tight so I need to find a wire pipe cleaner type to reach the bottom. I do wish the bowl was a bit bigger to fit the plugs you use. I have a sample one sitting on my counter waiting for some free time to sand down to fit. yes cleaning with the pipe cleaner definitely speed up sublimation time. Also I have found boiling water in the bowl seems to clean out the bowl and tube ok but not quite as well. Do you think the larger cap is any different material than their other sizes? I definitely see more of the dark blue contamination from the smaller CAcaps than from the red mopar caps. Naturally I can't see the white as well as they degrade.
 

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Ryan, 480 vaporization's with eight plugs is not bad, $40 for plugs is not bad either if one really things about it. Many variations of designs are out in the VAP-world and somewhere one has to make decisions on production. Parts can not be changed just that easily if one needs to build on a consistent base.

I am thankful for any help to improve what I build.

JoergK.
 

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John - somewhere in this massive post you mention experimenting with doing OAV every week through the year. Did you ever try this?
 

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Discussion Starter #976
No unfortunately making vaporizers has kept me so busy that I have had little time for anything else
 

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Has anyone else checked to inside the pot temperature? The PID says it's 450 but this temperature gun reads between 270 and 340 depending on just where in the pot you aim it??? This is an MK 350 terminator unit and the temperature probe is tapped and screwed through the pot and into the aluminum heat sink.
DSCN7621.jpg DSCN7623.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #978
I check my temperature by boiling water in the pot and make sure I end up close to 212F, so not being sure about 450F i purchased an infra red thermometer just like yours and found it to be quite useless as you could not get anywhere near the correct temperature when it was pointed into the pot when the water there was boiling away. I cannot even get near body temperature when I stick it into my ear.
 

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I check my temperature by boiling water in the pot and make sure I end up close to 212F, so not being sure about 450F i purchased an infra red thermometer just like yours and found it to be quite useless as you could not get anywhere near the correct temperature when it was pointed into the pot when the water there was boiling away. I cannot even get near body temperature when I stick it into my ear.
Pretty much what I'm finding. The vaporizer works just fine so I'll blame the infra red thermometer. I'll try boiling at some point but I'm not going to unwrap it now.

My main purpose was to make a backup with no PID like one of your first builds in this thread. I thought if you could get a reliable temperature reading with the infra red thermometer you could get by with a real cheap backup.

I will still play with that thought and If I can get a reading in the same range as a pot with a PID I would still have some guidelines as when I'm up to temp.
 

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Hello,

Air is not a good conductor and the bowl wall and bottom are the heated mass the OA crystals are sublimated on, not the air in the bowl, so the inside air temperature is really of no relevance, but the bowl mass temperature. This is the reason why the sensor, feeler or whatever one may call it, needs to be as close to this mass as possible. One reason why I still make the bowls I use from K-type copper since it is thicker, needs more time to heat-up, but also retains the heat longer when the charge is dropped.

The spot where the sensor is mounted is also important. it should be physically separated from the heat element or the PID will swing wildly. I mount mine under the bowl since the unit is (normally) heated upside-down. Heat still rises, so moves from the bowl wall with heat element to the bottom of the bowl (now the top).
 
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