[TimBob83]

So over the last ~2 weeks I've noticed a lot less dead bees in the snow in front of one of my hives. Started getting suspicious. Stuck my ear on both hives and heard buzzing in one but not the other. Grabbed the stethoscope and still couldn't hear anything in one hive. Gave it a tap, nothing.

Cracked the top, no bees staring at me (they'd been all over the mountain camp sugar a couple weeks before).

Anyway, worked my way down through the hive and all the bees are dead. This is my second winter. Last winter both hives made it so this is my first loss.

Hive is HEAVY. Food was not an issue.

I put some pictures here and would love some input as to why you think this might have happened.

The box of wood shavings is a pine quilt box, under that is a ~2 inch shim with an upper entrance/ventilation built in.

My finger is pointing to where there was a large pile of bees in the bottom deep box prior to me pushing them around. It's the front of the hive.

Box with all wooden frames is the top deep box

The white stuff is sugar that fell through today while I was manipulating boxes, not mold

Thanks for all the help, everyone....

Also, why so many dead bees along the sides?

 

[TimBob83]

Wow thanks for all the replies; I really appreciate it.

the hole in that shim is on the front of the hive.

their wings look normal to me; they don’t seem deformed and the bees seem to be normal size.

the dry sugar was a pre-emptive move since the weather can get so cold here that I can go months without an opportunity to open the hives. I cracked the hive a couple weeks ago and added some extra sugar (probably unnecessarily) just because I had decent weather to do it. It looks like none of that sugar has absorbed any moisture and so I bet the bees died soon after I put that on there.

The paper goes under the sugar simply to keep it on top so it doesnt fall down between the frames.

the bees certainly seem to be clustered on the east, south and west sides of the hive….perhaps they were migrating to the warmer parts of the hive.

no chewed bodies.

we had a pretty good cold snap a few weeks ago. -30 with wind chills around -50 so I guess it’s possible that did them in somehow

I’ll look into the frames around d where thecluster was found and post some pictures.

Again, thank you so much for all the replies. Hopefully someday I can return the favor!

 

[TimBob83]

Per your pictures - there is no well-formed cluster.
Rather, the bees are scattered all over (see my picture pasted).

This is similar to the losses I had this season - typically very late brooding/no well-formed clusters.
I write these off as poor genetics unfit for the harsh winter location and/or extra susceptible to the mites.

My similar failures are the result of open mating with whatever undesirable drones are in the area.
(a reasonable theory - as the majority of closely related bees winter just fine side-by-side with the dead ones and with identical management).).

What was the source of these dead bees, if known?

View attachment 73714 i

Interesting theory about genetics. This hive had an emergency queen (I squashed her mother) mated with wild drones in the area. I figured if anything, genetics would be better for that hive since they had some wild-type DNA.

there was a larger “lump” of bees where I’m pointing but now that you point it out, they do seem to be pretty scattered.

regarding the gap…that was after I realized they were dead. Just kind flopped the boxes back together so gap is larger than usual

I’ll get some pictures of the frames…was cold and didn’t want to spend a ton of time out there

 

[TimBob83]

You don't know IF you have "wild drones in the area".
You don't know about the "wild-type DNA".
Don't assume this at all.

Back to:
What are feral bees anyway? | Beesource Beekeeping Forums

That's fair.

 

[TimBob83]

you didn't say how or what you treated for mites?

Thanks for asking.

I treated with OAV. Mite counts were good although to be honest, I had a new little one around and moved to a new house around the same time. Might have gotten light on the treatments towards fall given how full the plate was.

Regardless of if the mites caused the problem (let's be honest....they basically contribute to all problems), I'm going to make sure to stay more on top of that for this upcoming season.

 

[TimBob83]

There wasn't a gap like that the whole season. That picture is after I'd taken everything apart and I just tossed it back together to get a picture of where the upper entrance was.

No wrap or insulation on sides. The material underneath the quilt box is window screening....it's what I had laying around. Last year was burlap because that's what I had laying around.

The quilt box is definitely underfilled. I guess I thought "good enough." Lesson learned. The stink of it is that I definitely filled it to the brim last year.

I'm going to read up on that Empire state honey producers information...take some pictures of the frames this weekend and post them here.

Again everyone, I really appreciate the input.

 

[TimBob83]

Ok here's a few pictures.

The first half is of the bottom box, second half (started after the picture of me holding the queen cupish thing) is of the upper. Looks like I'll have to make a second post with the rest of the pictures

General observations:
1: Tons of bees on bottom board. To be blunt I didn't look for mites on the board itself. There were just tons of bees. Some of the ones on the bottom were stuck to the bottom board and a bit moldy (older dead bees?) but there were plenty of fresh bodies. I picked up plenty of bees to look for mites and opened some brood cells and didn't find any.
2: There were plenty of young furry bees. Nobody appears deformed or unusually small.
3: The bees seemed spread out, no definitive cluster I could find and appeared to be going about their lives, eating some honey when suddenly they just froze in place (see pictures)
4: Bottom box was chock full of honey. All the frames looked essentially the same. Some capped honey, plenty of open.
5: There were 3 frames in the middle of the top box that had been used for brood but had very spotty patterns. In fact the frames where the brood sphere should have been were mostly empty save for some unhatched brood. I found one single larva and the capped cells that are in the pictures.
6: I had a hard time finding eggs and when I did...there were frequently 2 or 3 in each cell, haphazardly plopped in there.
7: The quilt box shaving were damp (not soaked/wet) and the hive seemed to have a fair amount of condensation which seemed confined mostly to the bottom box.
8: That queen cupish thing is solid wax/propolis.

Queen died? laying workers? no queen to make the bees cluster and so they spread out and froze in a cold snap?

Thanks again everyone!

Tim

 

[TimBob83]

rest of the pictures.

the knife is pointing to the cells with multiple eggs. Aside from this small area there are no eggs in the hive.

 

[TimBob83]

Thanks Ray!

 

[TimBob83]

Well I really appreciate all the input.

Lots of information to comb through and digest.

It's frustrating and somewhat embarrassing for it to have been mites. But sometimes the truth stings.

They were there. Too many of them. Given the harsh winters here, I have very little room for being lazy about mites. Perhaps that's true everywhere but my thought is that weak bees might make it through an easy winter, but they are much less likely to make it through a harsh one. Winter bees need all the strength they can get. Lesson learned.

I really appreciate everyone taking the time to go through this stuff with me. I was more disciplined about it in the past but this season got a bit lazy. I think I'm surprised at how badly the mites were able to damage the colony when I felt I was only a "little" lazy and not outright negligent. I guess they only need a small opening to wreck everything.

Thanks again.

And Drummerboy...yeah, we've got feet of snow still on the ground, today's wind chill is in the single digits. Last year the grass was showing on this date!

 

[TimBob83]

thought I'd throw one last update in here.

Went back out to the hive to clean stuff up. Took a look near the brood nest and the multiple eggs in cells were much more widespread than I thought (it was nice and sunny today). Probably equivalent to one side of a full frame) Some cells with 3,4,5 eggs just haphazardly plopped in there. There was also a patch of drone brood in the middle of one of the frames.

Anyway, thought you all might find that interesting.

Tim

 

[TimBob83]

thanks for the video! interesting bit about the short abdomens