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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone has ever tried this?

I'm so lazy and have so little time. I promise I'll be carefull when do the inspections :)

I'm using deep frames. I made a test and it holds fine. I don't know how it will work though.
 

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There is the danger of the fresh comb coming loose and break off if the foundation is not fastened strong enough. So great care should be taken to attach it as strong as possible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm aware of that that is why I've asked. I assume bees won't pay a special attention to further fasten the top. Would they? Only experience can tell. I built very simple frames, some of them I'll use foundationless, but at the same time I need as many drawn frames as I can get so I'm using foundation and need to install them before the black locust flow that will occur probably during the first half of May.

I've been looking over an alternative on using middle bars but still would better like to try without them.
 

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Experience says, that collapsing foundations create a mess. Bees enter the foundation and since there is a lot of space for them, the weight of the bees together with the warmth of the hive makes the foundation soft and it sags and collapses. You do not want that, surely. Do it right or don't do it, is what my experience showed me.

In the end it will eat up much more time to clean up the mess than you would have spend wiring the foundation properly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Thanks very much Bernard.

I will then add the middle bar. I hope that's enough.

I've just saw FatBeeMan's fishing line method. Nice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks very much.

I have another question:

Do you guys agree that in order to get a faster builtup, foundation will help?

As I see it foundation consists of a considerable amount of wax giving bees a quickstart. I also agree that in the long run it's better not to use them - far too much work for too little, not to mention contamination, diseases, benefit of small cell. In my case fast increase is the top priority.
 

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>Do you guys agree that in order to get a faster builtup, foundation will help?

No. I do not agree.

>As I see it foundation consists of a considerable amount of wax giving bees a quickstart.

Things are often not what they appear. They build foundationless faster than foundation in every instance I have seen and having comb is the point. Foundation slows them down.

>I also agree that in the long run it's better not to use them - far too much work for too little, not to mention contamination, diseases, benefit of small cell. In my case fast increase is the top priority.

Then I would use foundationless.
 

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Your bees do strange things, Mike. Certainly.

My bees do the following - foundationsless versus foundation side by side:













Repeated the results over and over and over again. Never had a case foundationsless winning over foundation being drawn faster. This is in my apiary. May differ elsewhere. :shhhh:
 

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Thanks very much.

I have another question:

Do you guys agree that in order to get a faster builtup, foundation will help?

As I see it foundation consists of a considerable amount of wax giving bees a quickstart. I also agree that in the long run it's better not to use them - far too much work for too little, not to mention contamination, diseases, benefit of small cell. In my case fast increase is the top priority.
I find that they will draw foundation faster once they get it started. I remove frames from nucs every week to put in cell builders and I can tell you that the frames with foundation get fully drawn in a day or two and the queen already laying in it. The foundation less are usually only a 1/4 or 1/2 drawn out in the same time frame.
 

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Perhaps the speed the bees draw has to do with comb use. With foundation, the queen can lay in the cells before they are drawn. If a flow is on, the bees can draw foundationless and fill with néctar as they go.

Ramona
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Silly me... to open a thread like this. I guess practice tells best.
In my case foundation works best and I'm sure it very much depends on the flow. In my country people raise sheep and they eat most of the flowers. The apple trees bloom has dissapeared in rain and the bees need to be fed.

Christ is Risen!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I "decided" to give up the idea of foundation after I built frames and attach foundation on only 5 deep supers. I really don't have the time for this so it's up for the bees to do the job right from the start.
I only hope that deep frames will resist with no wires if built from the start by the bees or maybe I will put some posickles or smt.
 
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