Use crimp wired wax foundation and you won't have any problems. We use grooved top and bottom bars with no-hook foundation, but you can also use the hooked wire foundation with wedge top bars and grooved bottom bars. If using deep frames you'll need to run 2 cross wires in the 2 center holes; no cross wires needed on medium frames. That's all I've ever used; hate plastic and have never had good results with it. :thumbsup: