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Two queen side by sides have been around for a long time.
Not sure why they haven't caught on.
DO you think the "Demarre" method they show will work?
I think they will get a 3rd queen in the upper box, unless they remove queen cells.
I think they can move frames twice, as there are only 10 frames in the upper.
maybe move 1 frame the third time.
just move the sealed brood
sure there may be an egg in there.
for me the "move" of frames is too time consuming, So I'd rather just spend12 more bucks for 6 more frames.

GG
 

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It seems like there are easier ways to do the same thing.

Since a lot of frame transfer is happening, then why not have some brood bomb nucs - plus this has the advantage of keeping extra queens handy. I do this after a fashion already. When I re-queen a hive I move the old queen to a nuc and let her lay for the rest of the season, transferring capped brood frames from the nuc to my other hives.
 

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it can be less work
In its inception the tower system for 2 queen hives came about as a way to access frames for drone culling with out lifting supers, it also allows you to check (enuff of) the brood nest to see that your queen right, the brood is healthy, and the pattern is good
https://ento.psu.edu/research/centers/pollinators/publications/twoqueesn
Helpful Post! I really like this concept. Am seriously considering something along these lines and would appreciate feedback. I set this photo up for what I have in mind. A single deep over a slatted rack. 8 frame supers over a QE. and a 5 frame nuc (with or without a QE) for broodnest expansion. With this set up I have access to more of the broodnest which I like.
Wood Interior design Flooring Floor Rectangle
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Helpful Post! I really like this concept. Am seriously considering something along these lines and would appreciate feedback. I set this photo up for what I have in mind. A single deep over a slatted rack. 8 frame supers over a QE. and a 5 frame nuc (with or without a QE) for broodnest expansion. With this set up I have access to more of the broodnest which I like.
View attachment 67079
Nice!
 

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Helpful Post! I really like this concept. Am seriously considering something along these lines and would appreciate feedback. I set this photo up for what I have in mind. A single deep over a slatted rack. 8 frame supers over a QE. and a 5 frame nuc (with or without a QE) for broodnest expansion. With this set up I have access to more of the broodnest which I like.
View attachment 67079
So 2 questions.
It has an interesting look......
What is the goal you have this solves?
How many supers do you plan to have for this hive?

And ponder the lid and the crack between the NUC and Super, rain there pours on the brood nest

GG
 

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So 2 questions.
It has an interesting look......
What is the goal you have this solves?
How many supers do you plan to have for this hive?

And ponder the lid and the crack between the NUC and Super, rain there pours on the brood nest

GG
Thank you GG for asking. It does have an interesting look. but is it a good plan? Did you see MSL's link to the system he referred to? It shows a double deep with a migratory nuc cover. Also, I found another one like it by Bill Hesbach. The photo on his site uses a stainless covered lid. (custom)
I've not put a lot of thought into flashing type solutions to overcome rain getting in b/c I figured that if it were a good plan overall then weather issues wouldn't be much of a hindrance. Especially with beesource as a resource. The main goal is of course honey. I like the idea of using drone brood as a way to keep mite counts down until it's time for an O/A once the honey is off the hive. Having easy access to the broodnest while supers are on seems a plus.. Could pulling capped brood up into the nuc help with swarm control? There may be other advantages too. And disadvantages I don't perceive. I will have to see how many supers to run on one. I'd like to keep it minimal by extracting as they fill but we often get busy and so I may end up piling them on. I value any opinions and thoughts or concerns. -David
 

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Thank you GG for asking. It does have an interesting look. but is it a good plan? Did you see MSL's link to the system he referred to? It shows a double deep with a migratory nuc cover. Also, I found another one like it by Bill Hesbach. The photo on his site uses a stainless covered lid. (custom)
I've not put a lot of thought into flashing type solutions to overcome rain getting in b/c I figured that if it were a good plan overall then weather issues wouldn't be much of a hindrance. Especially with beesource as a resource. The main goal is of course honey. I like the idea of using drone brood as a way to keep mite counts down until it's time for an O/A once the honey is off the hive. Having easy access to the broodnest while supers are on seems a plus.. Could pulling capped brood up into the nuc help with swarm control? There may be other advantages too. And disadvantages I don't perceive. I will have to see how many supers to run on one. I'd like to keep it minimal by extracting as they fill but we often get busy and so I may end up piling them on. I value any opinions and thoughts or concerns. -David
I like your idea of using "parts" you already have.
Rain on brood needs be resolved, I have a bee shed so it would not be an issue.
I've done 2 queen you would want 10 supers 8 for sure :)

another way to look at it, IF you are using 8F supers, ANd want a 15 frame brood next...... 2 deep 8Fs will do a similar deal. So You are after will a 2X hive to better than 2 X 1 hive. The books say yes, so give it a try.

Another option is reverse one of the BB to prevent drift but it really don't matter, except if a queen wanders into a different hive.,, it "thinks" it is a single hive. And will swarm as 1 hive, with both queens.

was a great learning experience, if you have the parts go for it. If it gets too tall And you have a 5F QE super the NUC boxes, or put full frames into a 5F medium over the NUC to reduce Height. Post, pulling the honey, I would make a 3 deep single Hive for winter, as it is cold here , there 2 8X8 would be better, your winter is less bad.

have fun

GG
 

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Understood GG.
Thank you for the encouragement. a bee shed is not out of the question for a test of two of these two queen hives. (yes we've got the parts)😃

One question (or two)
Is ten supers a number for end of the flow harvest?
Do you think I might be able to do this with fewer supers if I were able to extract every week or so.

A big part of the appeal with this two queen "tower" is the access to part of the broodnest without having to remove the supers. Drone brood frames can be added or removed (varroa control) without having to disassemble to gain access. So, using the nuc on each side just makes more of an access to the nest or if I have a QE under the nuc then it becomes a place to rotate out comb from the broodnest to give the queen room to lay. I didn't like the double deep concept as it provides access to only 1/4 of the frames while a single deep with a nuc gives access to much more of the nest.

I like the idea of supering over the nuc. -David
 

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One question (or two)
Is ten supers a number for end of the flow harvest?
Do you think I might be able to do this with fewer supers if I were able to extract every week or so.

I do one extract, so yes for the whole year.
Sure 6 should work, you will need enough room when you are extracting, for all the bees.
So when you add 5 and 6 you could pull 1 and 2, extract, then when needed, add them as 7 and 8 and pull 3 and 4 , etc.

just be aware 30 frames of bees and brood can fill one of those 8 frame mediums in a week.
AND they need room for nectar, so stay ahead of them a bit or they will swarm.

Could even consider Adding a second deep NUC about when the 4th super is added late june ish, then in a few weeks pull that away as a split. BUT the draw of the 2 queen is production, and pulling splits from production, can/will reduce the crop.

GG
 

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Could even consider Adding a second deep NUC about when the 4th super is added late june ish, then in a few weeks pull that away as a split. BUT the draw of the 2 queen is production, and pulling splits from production, can/will reduce the crop.

GG
[/QUOTE]
I am thinking the same thing about possibly pulling a split. I like the flexibility.
I'm curious how you ran two queens GG. Can you tell me more?
 

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Here is the latest.............
AN,
Seems you keep looking for some magic hives, but did you really looked into the 6-7 framers?
A commercial guy just uses 6-frame stacks and gets tons of honey.
The same footprint as the "two-queen" system for the production purposes - fewer complications related to that "two-queen" system.

If you are into small brood-nest, what is preventing you from just going for 6-7 frame equipment?
Important disclaimer - his brood is on Dadant frames.

 

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Could even consider Adding a second deep NUC about when the 4th super is added late june ish, then in a few weeks pull that away as a split. BUT the draw of the 2 queen is production, and pulling splits from production, can/will reduce the crop.

GG
I am thinking the same thing about possibly pulling a split. I like the flexibility.
I'm curious how you ran two queens GG. Can you tell me more?
[/QUOTE]
The only book I had for the first decade was "The hive and the honey bee"
It showed a method
BAsically all 10F lang gear.
On a double deep add excluder, super, excluder, deep with second Colony, Read NUC here but the word was not used in the book. top deep needs an entrance, starts as a 2 hive then merges into a mega hive. 2 inch hole and dial would work.
Add second super in-between, Add one to top queen top queen had 10 deep frames the bottom one had 20.
when the next super was needed. Tear the whole shebang down to the Bottom Board. then
check for QCs
Verify both queens have brood
Place top deep on the bottom Board, then the next 2 deeps.
Add 2 new supers, then the other 3 they are already in in reverse order of full.
fullest on top next fullest 1 down etc. this puts room over the brood nest.
then one empty on top with foundation, as a fuse.
once they started to "build, fill" the top fuse super, Shake and take 3 or 4 supers of honey, while adding at least (what you took minus 1) with 4 of these 2 queen hives, I did 2 hives of shake and takes , then extracted 8 supers, did the other 2 take 4 add 4 wets, extract them, add 2 wets back to each and it would "normally hold them till fall IE, 10 Supers total of honey, not more than 6 on top of 3 deeps to prevent tipping, at any one time if possible.
After honey Knock it back to 3 deep for winter.
Spring pull a split add Sears and Roebuck Queen and repeat, So I did it when I could order Queens from S&R
Was common to get 40 supers of honey from 4 2 queen, 3 deep systems..
Your 15 frame each setup could be simpler to run.
I quit due to the complete inspection, and tear down re build being a sting fest. too much open for too long, you could inspect 1 side today and the other tomorrow, never cracking and having honey all over exposed to robbing frenzies.

A word of caution, big strong hives, tend to become robber hives easier,, they eat NUCs for breakfast.
3 deeps and 6 supers is like 5 deeps of bees, 50 frames against 5, the big hive completely recovers the lost bees in 48 hours and go finds another. they do not play well with others. If you do this in your Apiary, be very aware of dearth's and open small hives rarely.

GG
 

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Gregg, I get the impression you have tried out various types of hives so I am very curious what you think about the photo of the mock two queen set up I posted. My goal is to expand to between 50 and 150 production hives. (not including nuc/splits) I have enough woodenware to run maybe 15 of these two queen set ups. Using stuff I currently have is a plus but I could be convinced to go 6 frame dedant deeps perhaps. I'm open to various options but when I do settle on a plan I will probably stick with it. This is why I am trying to mine opinions made available on beesource .So many years of trial and error here. I'm pretty new to this forum and really appreciate the atmosphere. straightforward and candid... and cautious too.
Thanks ahead of time. David
 

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I am thinking the same thing about possibly pulling a split. I like the flexibility.
I'm curious how you ran two queens GG. Can you tell me more?
The only book I had for the first decade was "The hive and the honey bee"
It showed a method
BAsically all 10F lang gear.
On a double deep add excluder, super, excluder, deep with second Colony, Read NUC here but the word was not used in the book. top deep needs an entrance, starts as a 2 hive then merges into a mega hive. 2 inch hole and dial would work.
Add second super in-between, Add one to top queen top queen had 10 deep frames the bottom one had 20.
when the next super was needed. Tear the whole shebang down to the Bottom Board. then
check for QCs
Verify both queens have brood
Place top deep on the bottom Board, then the next 2 deeps.
Add 2 new supers, then the other 3 they are already in in reverse order of full.
fullest on top next fullest 1 down etc. this puts room over the brood nest.
then one empty on top with foundation, as a fuse.
once they started to "build, fill" the top fuse super, Shake and take 3 or 4 supers of honey, while adding at least (what you took minus 1) with 4 of these 2 queen hives, I did 2 hives of shake and takes , then extracted 8 supers, did the other 2 take 4 add 4 wets, extract them, add 2 wets back to each and it would "normally hold them till fall IE, 10 Supers total of honey, not more than 6 on top of 3 deeps to prevent tipping, at any one time if possible.
After honey Knock it back to 3 deep for winter.
Spring pull a split add Sears and Roebuck Queen and repeat, So I did it when I could order Queens from S&R
Was common to get 40 supers of honey from 4 2 queen, 3 deep systems..
Your 15 frame each setup could be simpler to run.
I quit due to the complete inspection, and tear down re build being a sting fest. too much open for too long, you could inspect 1 side today and the other tomorrow, never cracking and having honey all over exposed to robbing frenzies.

A word of caution, big strong hives, tend to become robber hives easier,, they eat NUCs for breakfast.
3 deeps and 6 supers is like 5 deeps of bees, 50 frames against 5, the big hive completely recovers the lost bees in 48 hours and go finds another. they do not play well with others. If you do this in your Apiary, be very aware of dearth's and open small hives rarely.

GG
[/QUOTE]
I understand. I would not want to do it that way. You write "could be simpler to run" and this stands out to me. Never having run a 2 queen system I would think it would be for sure easier and I appreciate you saying this. I makes sure I am in reality about the idea. Nothing for sure. Our property is long and narrow and I could keep the nucs more than a mile away from the 2q hives. Would that make them just travel a little further for breakfast?
 

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Gregg, I get the impression you have tried out various types of hives so I am very curious what you think about the photo of the mock two queen set up I posted.
david, I have no idea.
Without trying hard to say (and I have not tried this).

But really I have no interest in your setup - not because it is bad but just because I don't really have interest in the 2-queen setups in general (I like things simple, which 2-queen setups are not).

IF one to really take advantage of two queens - it is sufficient to run your hives in pairs of standard equipment sets (without building Egyptian piramids).
Main production hive + resource hive (which feeds additional workforce into the main production hive as needed).
These are made up during regular apiary rebuilding/expansion work.
 

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A word of caution, big strong hives, tend to become robber hives easier,, they eat NUCs for breakfast
Good point: Like that Russian 6 frame keeper : I don't need a lot of bees, I need a lot of honey. thanks
It seems our property is not large enough to keep the nucs from being devoured.


Main production hive + resource hive (which feeds additional workforce into the main production hive as needed).
Good point. I will consider this.
Mel Disselkoen has an interesting way of setting up production colonies.

Giant colonies robbing my many planned nucs will be a huge problem if I went with a two queen system.
Currently. I am not so much interested in having an outyard so I need to resolve this issue.
Any further input is welcome. thank you so much.
David
 

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That is why some Beeks have separate yards for nuke building.
Even then there is no guarantee.
 

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The only book I had for the first decade was "The hive and the honey bee"
It showed a method
BAsically all 10F lang gear.
On a double deep add excluder, super, excluder, deep with second Colony, Read NUC here but the word was not used in the book. top deep needs an entrance, starts as a 2 hive then merges into a mega hive. 2 inch hole and dial would work.
Add second super in-between, Add one to top queen top queen had 10 deep frames the bottom one had 20.
when the next super was needed. Tear the whole shebang down to the Bottom Board. then
check for QCs
Verify both queens have brood
Place top deep on the bottom Board, then the next 2 deeps.
Add 2 new supers, then the other 3 they are already in in reverse order of full.
fullest on top next fullest 1 down etc. this puts room over the brood nest.
then one empty on top with foundation, as a fuse.
once they started to "build, fill" the top fuse super, Shake and take 3 or 4 supers of honey, while adding at least (what you took minus 1) with 4 of these 2 queen hives, I did 2 hives of shake and takes , then extracted 8 supers, did the other 2 take 4 add 4 wets, extract them, add 2 wets back to each and it would "normally hold them till fall IE, 10 Supers total of honey, not more than 6 on top of 3 deeps to prevent tipping, at any one time if possible.
After honey Knock it back to 3 deep for winter.
Spring pull a split add Sears and Roebuck Queen and repeat, So I did it when I could order Queens from S&R
Was common to get 40 supers of honey from 4 2 queen, 3 deep systems..
Your 15 frame each setup could be simpler to run.
I quit due to the complete inspection, and tear down re build being a sting fest. too much open for too long, you could inspect 1 side today and the other tomorrow, never cracking and having honey all over exposed to robbing frenzies.

A word of caution, big strong hives, tend to become robber hives easier,, they eat NUCs for breakfast.
3 deeps and 6 supers is like 5 deeps of bees, 50 frames against 5, the big hive completely recovers the lost bees in 48 hours and go finds another. they do not play well with others. If you do this in your Apiary, be very aware of dearth's and open small hives rarely.

GG
I understand. I would not want to do it that way. You write "could be simpler to run" and this stands out to me. Never having run a 2 queen system I would think it would be for sure easier and I appreciate you saying this. I makes sure I am in reality about the idea. Nothing for sure. Our property is long and narrow and I could keep the nucs more than a mile away from the 2q hives. Would that make them just travel a little further for breakfast?
[/QUOTE]
you should really do it.
then next winter you have lots to ponder.
the pick you show is doable

there is always a better way.

but like my Uncle always said there is prefect and there is done. Pick one and go for it.

GG
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Getting back to the Nat hive, I am wondering who would buy it.

I am thinking it would appeal primarily to people with 0-5 years' experience, and fewer than 10 hives.

I don't think it would appeal to larger sideliners, and wouldn't be something commercial guys would be interested in.

People who wouldn't want to build their own equipment and wanted to try something new and different might be interested in it.

I looked at his patent, and it wouldn't be all that hard to design around.

I think the price is not unreasonable, but more than I would pay. I am cheap and build my own stuff.

That said, it would probably work OK.

Comments?
 

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sorry A Novice for temporarily hijacking your post. I got excited about that other hive well. sorry. I may start a discussion about it but don't know how yet as I am new here.
David
 
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