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After watching both videos on their site I have a few questions.

With only 6 frames per queen, won't swarm control become a full season job?

I also understand two queens equals double the workforce but again, at 6 frames of brood each is that enough space to fully realize the advantage of having another queen? Seems like a single queen system that had 20 frames of space could outpace the one with 6 frames.

One last thought. If you constantly need to swap frames to prevent swarming, what are you doing once you have your honey supers on? To achieve the claim of no lifting your honey supers until they are ready to come off, wouldn't you be swapping brood frames into your supers? And if you did that wouldn't nurse bees get pulled up into the super stack? How would this affect mite treatments?

I haven't done much research on a two queens system and have no experience with one so maybe there are clear answers to my questions. I can only see it through the eyes of someone who has only run standard equipment.

I'd be interested to see others opinions. For now I think I'd be more likely to hang a few swarm traps across the road from this guy than to buy into the system.
 

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There is more than 6 frames with brood developing. The queens keep getting combs put before them that has emptied cells for the queens to lay in. It is similar in effect to what Roland does (if I have it correctly) of continually moving brood up above an excluder and moving open comb down. As soon as the queens lay up a frame she is presented with an empty.
 

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Here is the latest

The Nat Hive - Two Queen Hive, More Honey Made Easy

It claims to make 2-queen easy

Any comments?

At $190, is it worth buying?
no lifting heave supers and then the pics have 10 frame deeps, seems to not match.

I have done 2 queen and yes you get more honey, more stings, more management. I needed to either extract mid season or use a ladder to put the lid on. very tippy
IF/When the thing swarms both queens leave and it is a Shi!! show for a while.

if you have wood working stuff, make a double wide bottom, make the ends strong enough for super weight and give it a try. Ian Steppler uses 3 6 frame boxes with 2 supers on top similar theme. less tippy, and all the parts have other uses.
the 6 framers can be NUCs or production.

no easy way, Many "ways" each has its own challenges.

GG
 

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200lbs ?

Doolittle pulled over a quarter of a ton of honey from a single 4ft Long Hive 'back in the day' - likewise with no lifting of supers. Why didn't that method catch on ? Because it required a disproportionate amount of hands-on management.

Regret to say - there's always a price of some kind to be paid - otherwise, everybody would have adopted something similar ...
LJ
 

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It looks like all he is doing is using a well established method of running a 2 queen hive. The system has been published in one of the beekeeping journals using 2 brood boxes pushed together with supers stacked straddling them and 2 half hive covers over the 2 remaining brood box top openings. He is just making the bottom box permanently set up for 2 queens and selling them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
It looks to me like this will rapidly become a 3-queen hive, based on his "Demaree" manipulations.

The bees in the upper box will raise a queen, because they are separated from the lower box, with a box in between.

If there is no exit except thru the QE, she will become a drone layer. But it looks like his inner/outer cover gives the queen an exit. Girls will be girls, after all.

The mystery box below the upper box will probably be filled with mostly honey.

So you will have 3 queens. One with 10 frames, two with six frames each. The mystery middle box will likely mostly fill up with honey. I would place a QE between it and the upper box. Eliminates possibility of queen fights and gives you clean honey in brood-free combs. There should be a laying queen in the upper box before supers are needed. I would add an entrance/escape hole in that box, because otherwise the QEs will get clogged with drones.

If all goes well, you should get a lot of honey.

Man, I wish I could find the queen that fast. It helps if you only have a few bees in the hive, as in the demo.

Any beekeeper who does his manipulations that quickly is either a beekeeping prodigy, or probably won't know that he has three queens.

None of that is bad. 3 queens are better than one.

However, the queen in the upper box will be below the supers, so you will need to lift them off to see what she is doing. The mystery box in the middle will hold maybe 50 pounds of honey, which should hold you til swarm season is mostly over. It could work OK.

Treating for mites and checking the health in the top box once supers are on could require some additional work. Probably some lifting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
How would you winter in this hive?

A six-frame brood chamber that you can't stack on top of. Maybe you could remove the top and set a couple of 6-frame nucs on top of the bottom box.

That would give 12 frames to winter in.

You would need to make a shim where the top of the lower was cut down.
 

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How would you winter in this hive?

A six-frame brood chamber that you can't stack on top of. Maybe you could remove the top and set a couple of 6-frame nucs on top of the bottom box.

That would give 12 frames to winter in.

You would need to make a shim where the top of the lower was cut down.
Ian puts them in his shed as a 6 frame NUC, good ones are replacement colonies.
You could do 6X6 if 5X5 works for you to winter.

GG
 

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Ian Steppler
no just the 6 frame , he winters in "1 deep" 10 and 6
check out the Canadians bee keeper blog

 

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200lbs ?

Doolittle pulled over a quarter of a ton of honey from a single 4ft Long Hive 'back in the day' - likewise with no lifting of supers. Why didn't that method catch on ? Because it required a disproportionate amount of hands-on management.

Regret to say - there's always a price of some kind to be paid - otherwise, everybody would have adopted something similar ...
LJ
The available forage during doolittles day pretty much negates comparison with what is being done present day don't you think?
 

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I will pass. I already tend to have big enough hives with a single queen, and I am not sure it is worth the extra work for 2 queens in a hive.
 

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The available forage during doolittles day pretty much negates comparison with what is being done present day don't you think?
No.
I was responding to the claim that this super-wizzo hive can return a harvest of 200lbs. Which, as a stand-alone figure, is pretty meaningless. 200lbs compared with what ? How many other hives were in the apiary at the same time - and what was their yield ?

In contrast, Doolittle's experiment was comparative: the hive in question returned 566 lbs of extracted honey when the average yield from that apiary of 69 hives was 166 lbs. 400 lbs above the apiary average gives some indication of the foraging and processing ability of the colony within that hive and it's system under exactly the same foraging conditions as the other hives. The main difference between that hive and the others was the amount of hands-on management required.

Doolittle didn't repeat that experiment as he wasn't particularly impressed by the result, bearing in mind the considerable amount of work involved when compared with that required by his regular hives.
LJ
 

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I will pass. I already tend to have big enough hives with a single queen, and I am not sure it is worth the extra work for 2 queens in a hive.
it can be less work
In its inception the tower system for 2 queen hives came about as a way to access frames for drone culling with out lifting supers, it also allows you to check (enuff of) the brood nest to see that your queen right, the brood is healthy, and the pattern is good
https://ento.psu.edu/research/centers/pollinators/publications/twoqueesn
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Two queen side by sides have been around for a long time.
Not sure why they haven't caught on.
DO you think the "Demarre" method they show will work?
I think they will get a 3rd queen in the upper box, unless they remove queen cells.
I think they can move frames twice, as there are only 10 frames in the upper.
maybe move 1 frame the third time.
 

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I have had no problem lifting brood above the excluder in a 2 queen hive. in fact its far more common to have them not draw queen cells if one of the queens are lost then draw cells with lifted brood. 2x the queens 2x the queen sent

if you look at my profile pic closely you will see thats a stack of 10f deeps on top of 2 5f nuc boxes. every 2 weeks or so I would show up with a new box and frames of (mostly drawn) and lift 8 frames of brood (leaving what ever frame the queen was on, or shake off 4 if I couldn't find her in short order) replace the frames... stack unstack.. sucked found my limit was 5 deeps high
 

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it can be less work
In its inception the tower system for 2 queen hives came about as a way to access frames for drone culling with out lifting supers, it also allows you to check (enuff of) the brood nest to see that your queen right, the brood is healthy, and the pattern is good
https://ento.psu.edu/research/centers/pollinators/publications/twoqueesn
I suspect it depends on the location and flows. I try to tip up all of my boxes once a week in the spring and summer to check for queen cells since I am in an suburban area. Moving 5 supers to get to the brood box is enough, twice as many on a hive with 2 queens would be a lot of work. If I was less concerned about my hives throwing swarms it might be less work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I have had no problem lifting brood above the excluder in a 2 queen hive. in fact its far more common to have them not draw queen cells if one of the queens are lost then draw cells with lifted brood. 2x the queens 2x the queen sent

if you look at my profile pic closely you will see thats a stack of 10f deeps on top of 2 5f nuc boxes. every 2 weeks or so I would show up with a new box and frames of (mostly drawn) and lift 8 frames of brood (leaving what ever frame the queen was on, or shake off 4 if I couldn't find her in short order) replace the frames... stack unstack.. sucked found my limit was 5 deeps high
Good to know.
I usually have 2 queens sidexside, but haven't tried this method exactly. Might try it.

They do seem reluctant to requeen sometimes is true.
 
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