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I always hear old timers bemoaning plastic foundation and don't even get them started on the full plastic frame with no wood whatsoever. I too love wooden frames but a few years ago a bought a few full plastic frames for convenience. Aside from the departure from tradition, I see no difference in them other than saving me time. A few people have told me they get too cold and reduce overwintering success, I haven't observed this. A bear got into a few of my bees and all the one pieces survived being stepped on with just a few cracks that made no difference, all of my foundation based frames were completely punched out and basically useless. I will continue to buy wooden frames as the difference in frames helps me track things within the hive but I have no issue with moving my 40 hives to essentially all plastic.
 

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I like and use them for the convenience. I still have some wood, and occasionally mix them. The bees don't seen to care. I used to run 60 hives almost exclusively on plastic. The do tend to break easier than wood, especially during inspections (first frame).
 

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I like plastic frames also, but am now moving over to wood with plastic foundation. Reason, the nooks and crannies of the plastic frame provide excellent hiding places for SHB ........
 

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Ha ha, my browser truncates the title of this thread to read, "Re: Am I the only one who loves one piece", until I open that particular thread, and since I was watching the Japanese Anime, "One Piece" at the time. I initially thought, why is someone discussing Anime on Beesource?
 

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The only ones I have ever tried are Mann lake pf120s and during a flow they stick together between boxes - and to the lid - and kill some bees, including an occasional queen. Do you not have that issue?
 

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I probably have 1000 mann lake PF frames. We like them.
Just bought 200 foundationless frames from Kelly since they had free shipping.
 

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We use them and like them. Both PF120 and Pierco.
Still have lots of wooden frames as well, with wired wax foundation.
 

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Do you not experience the issue I asked about, or do you like them despite of it? Or do you have some way of dealing with it?
 

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If you like filling landfills when you scrap them in 20 years, then they should be no problem for you. and what do you do when they get AFB after a few years?

Crazy Roland
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I have had none of the issues you mention David. Also, I do feel some guilt over using plastic over wood. By AFB I assume you are asking how I will torch them? Haven't really thought about that I admit.
 

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I use Mann Lake's PF100 and foundation-less wood frames. Haven't had a problem with bees drawing comb at all. Slipping a foundation-less wood frame between two drawn plastic frames works like a charm. If done during the flow in the brood chamber I get a beautiful drawn worker cell frame that is straight and very secure around the edges. The plan for the hives I run has always been to eventually be ALL FOUNDATION-LESS, but realistically there will always be some plastic frames in use due to their convenience.

I also have observed the SHB "nook and crannies" issue, but have concluded that it's more of a beetle jail by the bees. Often those crevices are heavily propolised and then the beetle make a break for it when the frames are pried apart. Overall, I don't have many issues with the plastic frames and think they definitely have their place.
 

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Whitebark,

Not sure where you're located (you should fill out your profile so that we know your location), but as David pointed out, SHB love the recesses on the PF frames. I bought a bunch of these many years ago, and although cheap, I find them more costly in the long-term. I've had many of these frames buckle in my extractor (top bar gets a crack and the frame buckles). Also, be careful with handling, particularly when filled with honey. Even a short drop will shear off the tabs on the top bar. I had a super slip out of my hands when pulling honey and lost 8 out of 10 frames. I could extract the frames, but what a hassle! Something you simply don't experience with wooded frames. Also when frames are really glued down by the bees, you can easily run your hive tool through the top bar while trying to pry out the frame. I've learned to intersperse the PF with wooden frames so that I have something strong to pry against. Lastly, plastic gets weaker with age, so these problems become more common with older frames. My preferred frame/foundation combo these days is the preassembled frames from Mann Lake with Rite-Cell plastic foundation - nearly bulletproof.
 

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These are the reasons I'm slowly changing to foundationless frames.
We haven't had problems using the Man Lake pf frames. Most of the time they are drawn perfectly, as long as the bees need the extra space.

If you like filling landfills when you scrap them in 20 years, then they should be no problem for you. and what do you do when they get AFB after a few years?

Crazy Roland
 

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No one plans to get AFB, or CCD, or any other resident ailment, but when it does happen, sterilization or disposal costs must be considered.

Crazy Roland
 

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I have been using a mix of HSC, PF120 and foundationless.... No major problem with any but my bees definitely prefer foundationless....
 

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I've used both. I tend to prefer plastic foundation. I formerly did not like the all-plastic frames because they seemed to have too much flex in them, making them look flimsy. I'm impressed by the all-plastic Rite Cell frames, though; they seem much sturdier.

AFB? Gimme a break. Scrape off and burn the wax, and throw the frame in the recycle bag with your empty soda bottles and milk jugs.
 
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