Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

21 - 29 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #21 ·
be careful your triples do not rob out your new NUCs

you "could" pull 2 5 frame NUCs out of a 3 deep super it up and let it go into production.
the field bees would go back and then would be 2 . 5 deeps of bees, and the 5 frame splits should keep enough nurse bees to survive.

just would need some queen cells to pull it off.

GG
I didn't think of that and I'll be transferring the new nucs into 10 frame deep broods tomorrow, finally some sun and 60's again. I have the top feeders on the triples and plan on put top feeders on the 10 frames broods with the transferred nucs. That' worked for me in the past as it gets them building comb and gives them an anchor to the new box. There is plenty of forage here right now, cherries, dandelions, lindens, everything is busting open but the weather got kind of dumpy with rain and upper 40's. I may add an entrance excluder on the 3" side just to give them less area to defend if there is any robbing but I haven't had robbing as an issue in the past. Like I said, there seems to always bee a lot of forage here.

I like the suggestion for manipulation you sent and that may happen in the next day or so-I haven't been in there since last week. I was hoping to get some VSH queens for these splits but need to make calls on availability down south. Still early here, just saw the first drone pupae last week which probably hasn't emerged yet and with the typical April rains here, a virgin isn't going to get much opportunity for me where I'd like to be. Ideally, I'd like to have the queens on hand and then do the splits and introduction at one time which would eliminate a lot of the calamity with new queens.

The wedding is up in Northport, Mi.
 

·
Registered
5 ,8 ,10 frame, and long Lang
Joined
·
2,522 Posts
if you have dandelions I would discontinue the feeders , just makes it more likely they swarm.

good luck with the splits.

North port is up by Traverse, if you come in from the south on 131 I am about 6-8 miles off the freeway.

GG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
It's been 3 weeks now and it's time to split the triple deep hives, this is definitely one of those "Don't wish for too much, it may happen" deals. Did an inspection on them this afternoon and the are all 30 frames of bees, looking very health, loads of brood, stores and comb. Tomorrow or Sunday will split day, been prepping nucs and squared away some extra 10 frame deeps. I've got about 12 hours to make a final decision on this so appreciate any last minute thoughts from the community. I'm not sure if I want a big pile of new nucs, especially since I'm not sitting on a pile of queens and these are all going to end up with being queened from swarm cells. I did take on too much this spring and combined with a few factors, stuff came on way too quick to follow the original plan. I'm hoping (and think I will) find some swarm cells when I go deeper into the hive. Todays inspection was only the top and partial middle deep due to weather conditions (high wind-gusts to 50 today, temps around 60) which were unfavorable to real do a frame by frame. Tomorrow, 70's light winds. I have both nucs and ten frame ready depending on the call. Right now, I might be able to do a 1 to 4 split into 5 frames leaving a (mother colony) 15 frame double deep (+ 5 new frames) and three 5 frame nucs. If successful, they would need to be transferred into 10 frames deeps in a few week/month from now. They would grow out but be out of production for this season in order to get them up to strength (double deeps) by summers end. The other option I'm considering is do a 1:3 split, a 14/or 16 frames mother double deep and two 7 or 8 frame single deep and assuming that we have ample swarm cells, have them into production by mid/late June. They will all end up out on the farm once I know I have laying queen. I'm fortunate we have some interested newbees to help but more importantly, my now 18 year old daughter is all in (and probably knows more about bees that I do. Any last minute advice?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Not going to happen today, we were at 38 F at sunrise, still some wind around and we're looking at 38 again over night tonight. Still on the fence on which way to go-nucs or 10 frames. The weather moderates later in the week, might be quite warm -80'sF. Still not sure if I have any swarm cells in these hives, haven't seen any but the populations are definitely 30 frames of bees. I'm fortunate that I do have the woodenware, both nucs and boxes. Spent yesterday painting some bottom boards and tops so I had full options. I'd rather not have 5 frames or even 8 frames of nurse bees and brood trying to figure out where they are if we hit cold weather the first night.
 

·
Registered
5 ,8 ,10 frame, and long Lang
Joined
·
2,522 Posts
if you only find eggs in cups you can still split the egg will be made into a queen.

the 5 frame splits sound ok with a Q cell, with out Q cells try for the 2 of the 7 frame, I like stronger splits better.

another angle if a couple 3 deeps do not have any cells or cups is to remove the queen and 2 frames of brood (older darker brood) and let the remaining 27 frames make some E cells. you may be fine
leaving them for another week or 10 days may also drive some cell creation and is another option.
good luck

GG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #26 ·
I ended up going with a 3 for 1 split (mother and 2 new) on all five hives which means I just added 10 to my apiaries. I saw the beginnings of a few queen cells but nothing to write home to mom about but it was something to work with. The new colonies are all 10 frame boxes; 8 frames, two of solid honey and pollen, three or four of capped brood (old black comb) and two of fresh eggs backfilled with a few frames of foundation. Hopefully I didn't screw this up, it was a lot of work and really disrupted the mother colonies-bees everywhere. I took the third deep off, and splits them up between a new box and the third deep. Pulled frames from both the bottom and middle deep to round out the splits then reversed all but one deep (I was pretty much shot at that point). I added a feeder to all of the new colonies with around a gallon of syrup and refilled almost empty feeders on the the mother colonies with a gallon too. I didn't want to add to much, we'll see if they take it over the next week As of last night-8 hours or so since the splits, the mother colonies who are all now double deeps with 15 old frames and 5 new checkerboarded in looked like they're none the worse for ware. I am amazed by the still large, post-split populations in the mothers. All of the hives have some dead drone pupae on the landing boards that were killed when I separated frames but they are bringing them out, so they've started reworking the hives. I have some concerns about the splits that went into the new boxes, while I did shake some more nurse bees into them, when I added the feeders last night (quick in and out) some looked a little weaker than (population-wise) I'd like. I'll give them some time and since I'm planning on doing some equalization on the new hives (this years nucs) later this week, I'll (split hives of concern) give them a look and maybe add some nurse or egg frames then.

The jury is still out on adding the third deep this year. On one hand, I could have gone with honey production early by just adding supers early, hitting these first flows and pulled some built out deep frames for the "bank" which was my original intentions. On the other hand, I got (maybe) 10 new hives and with this year new nucs and the mother colonies, we should be producing honey in a month or two. I guess time will tell.
 

·
Registered
5 ,8 ,10 frame, and long Lang
Joined
·
2,522 Posts
sounds like you did fine.

on the " backfilled with a few frames of foundation. " hopefully not in the splits.
they will de populate the foragers so the "10" frame split is really going to be 6.
many do 3 or 4 frame splits so if they have a cell 6 frames is fine. the "mother" as you call it, be sure to add a super of comb as they will get back 40% of the bees you split off, I use comb here as the bees will occupy the super as they need the space. once 1/2 full, you can pull a couple frames up each time you add a super.

So you still have all the field bees at the original hive the crop should be fine. As with this strategy I get a super each on the splits in July .
I just went thru the home yard last week and have 10 swarm control splits, they had cells started. Some on mine are D+D+M I take the top Medium and do 5 frames each into to splits in a 5 frame NUCs over 3 frames from the top deep. totally removes the honey dome and gets the new splits some stores, I in that case do not feed the splits either. Once the queens hatch they go into a deep with medium over D+M and get a super, when the super is full I nader a deep from dead outs and traps, in Late july and can get a deep deep medium ready for winter, and Have a super of honey.

IMG_20210504_084311.jpg

here are 4 of them.
the single story has a Queen I pulled from a hive about to swarm, in 6 days I'll split the parent up as well.
so the splits are 3 deep frames and 5 medium, they seem to do ok, can be done with all deeps as well.
these will get me a super (Medium) of honey and be D+D+M by October, If they look good same process in the spring.
Keep in mind they have 8 combs now with brood , honey and pollen, when I go to 10F they get 4 more, 2 empty and 2 full, from dead outs, so only need to make bees for the most part, added super is comb as well.

good luck let us know how many ended up queen rite.

GG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Thanks Goose. Maybe I'll be by in October to try some of that honey. On my frames in the splits, I did 8 frames of eggs, capped brood, pollen and store that were all well coated with nurse bees then shook a frame or two on top. The two ends of the 10 frame box has a blank frame at each end to give them something to work on while we wait out a new queen. I hope that was the right procedure as I wanted to leave the "mothers" with at least 14 frames between the two deep broods and filled in with blanks checkerboarding between top and bottom deeps-hopefully that give them something to do and avoid any swarming before they get supers in a few weeks. All hives got a gallon of syrup in top feeders which as of a quick look last night from the top, they were feeding on. Yes, maybe somewhat convoluted, I guess I'll find out. The "mothers" seem to still have a huge population of nurse bees. While I'm hesitant of reopening the hives, I think I could shake in some more nurse bees from the mother without any population concern for the "mothers" There was a lot of drone comb on the top of frames between boxes and I probably kill quite a few separating frames and boxes. They are pushing out/carrying away the dead drone larvae/pupae (I get them mixed up) All of the hives, including the splits appear (at a lunch inspection) to be cleaning up the interiors and getting things running again-good sign? I'll check inside the new splits at the end of the week and see if I need to get new queens, add brood and eggs or just pray. Well, I guess I'm already praying.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
485 Posts
Discussion Starter · #29 · (Edited)
I'm starting to second guess myself on timing on these splits. 2 of the 10 look very week, maybe I had too many foragers on those frames and they all flew home or too many young nurse bees that aren't flying yet. The weather is supposed to close in with colder temps and rain coming in late tomorrow for the next 4 days, cooler for the next 10 if they're right and I'm just feeling like I should pull a couple of frames from the "mother colonies" (who have bounced back like nothing happened) and shake in some more nurse bees. All of the splits have top feeders on them and a gallon of syrup. Maybe I should just go find some mated queens...

Tomorrow is supposed to be partly sunny in the mid 60's-should I try shaking in some more bees from the splits mother?
 
21 - 29 of 29 Posts
Top