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my guess is that many locals who would be using russians are using the purdue MBB, lessing there populatirly inthe area
If the Russian stock significantly outperformed other stocks re mite resistance then they would be an unstoppable genetic wave; we'd be seeing something like the Africanization wave that swept from Brazil to south TX in a few decades. Unless in some other way they were distinctly unfit.

I have read a report that Russian genetics is getting into feral stock in Louisiana and replacing older stocks.
 

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well you have the local "feral survivor" stock as well
but remember this isn't a mite resistance test, and isn't a survival test (thow both points do matter) its gole is to

Its were the rubber meets the road for profit based beekeeping...
IE Maybe the georgia Italians come out on top(not enuff selection for honey production in the MMB and ferals)... sure they need 2 extra mite treatment at $10 each and you need to put $20 in sugar in to them so they don't starve... but they make $60 more in honey and you get an extra 1/2-1 nuc out of them come spring offsetting there slightly higher winter loss rate.. Do to being TF its quite possible the MBB may have had some productivity die out of its gene pool

Local II TF bees vs local natural selection TF bees, vs foreign commercial work horses. It should be interesting to see just how far apart (or close) the stocks are in performance

Side bar they are doing a 48 hour sticky board before each monthly mite wash this will give us thousands of paired samples, works of others (Randy O, ect) have show stickies to be very inconscient (I liken them to tea leaves) but this will be a very large sample size so it should be insteringing to see if it supports past works


In this case New World Carniolans from Strachan Apiaries, arguably not typical for Ca, but popular in the area being tested.


my guess is that many locals who would be using russians are using the purdue MBB, lessing there populatirly inthe area
Thanks MSL interesting observations.
BTW I have Russians and they so far way out winter any swarm I have caught, I am not assuming the Swarms are feral. IMO most of the ferals here have mited out.

Swarms are good for 5 X OAV then place a Russian QC in them. :)

GG
 

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If the Russian stock significantly outperformed other stocks re mite resistance then they would be an unstoppable genetic wave; we'd be seeing something like the Africanization wave that swept from Brazil to south TX in a few decades. Unless in some other way they were distinctly unfit.

I have read a report that Russian genetics is getting into feral stock in Louisiana and replacing older stocks.
AR1
I let 2 or 3 Russians go every year..
Perhaps into someone's Swarm Trap.

GG
 

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Here is how the Mother/Daughter open-mating out-breeding looks like (still incomplete).
I took the F1 queen I bought last year and the F2 daughters I raised myself from here (all three F2 daughters are dead, btw; the F1 mother still OK). The original "breeder" queen is of some Russian/VSH origin, according to the seller.

Just these rough morphological runs show how quickly the out-breeding occurs.
Observe how the original F1 results (double-run) has heavy Carnica presence and virtually no Caucasica.
The F2, mated at my backyard, have significant Caucasica presence added to them and Carnica diluted by about as much (ignore the Sossimai and Ligustica for the moment).
It maybe consequential that all of my F2 died due to these changes.
One more F2 sample is to be tested, hopefully over the weekend.

And so I would question the entire "Russian" bee talk.
In fact, this same applies just as well to most any hybrid-based "breeds" (be it VSH, leg-biters, Buckfast, Saskatraz, etc). What ARE they?

And speaking of the feral bees?
LOL
I would want some sort of the documentation to at least know rough make up of the "ferals".
Seems to me a pointless talk otherwise.
They should be at least comparing some sort of documented bee profiles vs. a mix feral cats in a beg.

Some kind of stable and well-known signatures of the "Russian"/VSH/etc bees need to be developed and documented before we even talk about it (not to mention doing "research").

I am interested in obtaining few "Russian" bee samples to at least look at them for some consistency (IF it even exists).
 

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Hi Greg,

This would be true for "your Apairy"

PM Me your mailing address, I can send some bees 50ish correct? spring dead bees ok?

GG
 

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Discussion Starter #26
If the Russian stock significantly outperformed other stocks re mite resistance then they would be an unstoppable genetic wave;; we'd be seeing something like the Africanization wave that swept from Brazil to south TX in a few decades.
sadly that's just not how bees work..

the AFB wave didn't out compete EFB for resources or what not for their niche, they bred them out.

AHB, make more drones, the drones fly at a time better suited to mate with a EHB queen (later in the day then EHB drones) and they had better mating sucess
They swarm much more, AHB genes are dominant, AHB sperm is preferentially used by EHB queens who have mated with bolth, and AHB queens emerge 2 days earlier so they are the ones who take over a hive after a swarming event... even if its just one or 2 AHB drones who mated with the EHB queen
 

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PM Me your mailing address, I can send some bees 50ish correct? spring dead bees ok?
Will contact you GG.
I am indeed asking around locally for "Russian" bee samples.
 

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This would be true for "your Apairy"
Of course.
I have a very specific example as a demonstration.

However, the "Russian" (TM) bees for sale must be the same everywhere and should produce very similar morpho-signatures.
If you sell the "Russians", then provide the conformity certificate.
No?
:)
 

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Of course.
I have a very specific example as a demonstration.

However, the "Russian" (TM) bees for sale must be the same everywhere and should produce very similar morpho-signatures.
If you sell the "Russians", then provide the conformity certificate.
No?
:)
As I understand there are 17 lines in 3 blocks, so not sure if the wings match...


GG
 

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As I understand there are 17 lines in 3 blocks, so not sure if the wings match...


GG
By and large they ALL should produce very similar wings within the allowed CI/DsA/HI ranges so to classify them ALL as the Russians.

The wing testing is a very rough testing and catches the significant phenotype differences only (not down to the DNA level differences). The line differences are too fine and down to the genetic testing level - not for us to judge.

This is, of course, IF they allowed the lines to diverge from the original stock and from each other too far - which they should not.
Now - IF the lines are so very distinct, then IMO they should be marketed as specific line numbers than (e.g. Russian, Line 13).
 

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Just as well, if someone claims to use pure-ish Apis millifera mellifera in some kind of consequential research, should be using bees that indeed conform to a wing profile like this:

61787
 

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Thanks MSL interesting observations.
BTW I have Russians and they so far way out winter any swarm I have caught, I am not assuming the Swarms are feral. IMO most of the ferals here have mited out.

Swarms are good for 5 X OAV then place a Russian QC in them. :)

GG
GG, where are you getting your Russian queens or queen cells from?
 

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sadly that's just not how bees work..

the AFB wave didn't out compete EFB for resources or what not for their niche, they bred them out.

AHB, make more drones, the drones fly at a time better suited to mate with a EHB queen (later in the day then EHB drones) and they had better mating sucess
They swarm much more, AHB genes are dominant, AHB sperm is preferentially used by EHB queens who have mated with bolth, and AHB queens emerge 2 days earlier so they are the ones who take over a hive after a swarming event... even if its just one or 2 AHB drones who mated with the EHB queen
And they quickly developed some resistance to mites. Very interested in seeing how the Puerto Rican bees play out.
 

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Some additional commentary from the research team regarding the initial study posted by MSL:

 
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