6/20 Split Questions

851 Views 14 Replies 5 Participants Last post by Gray Goose, Jul 22, 2020

Kevinf

Discussion Starter · Jul 19, 2020

I did a split on 6/20 and during inspection on 7/2 saw several QCs due to emerge, so let's assume a queen emerged on 7/2-3. Related, for the past week this hive has been under persistent, but somewhat low level robbing pressure from the strong parent hive. I've managed to seal all the cracks, narrowed the entrance to 1", and have on robber screens. Nevertheless, I'm sure the robbing has had an impact. Finally, other than changing out their 1:1 I have not inspected the hive since 7/2.

My questions are:

1. Is today too soon to inspect for eggs from a newly mated queen?

2. I was thinking of taking a frame of soon to emerge capped brood (less nurse bees) from the parent hive and putting in the split to bolster their numbers. Is this a good idea?

Thanks!

Kevin

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Jim Braun

· #2 · Jul 19, 2020

According to the queen rearing calendar from www.thebeeyard.org you should check for eggs on 7/20/20. If you see larvae on 7/25/20 they are good to go. Another indicator is when you open the top the bees are quiet. If they are buzzing or roaring they don't have the potential for a queen. It's very nerve racking to wonder but you need to be patient. Since we are in the dearth and you already know that the strong hive is pressuring them why give them more chances to rob the new hive?

I can't talk about adding capped brood since I don't have experience doing that. I have 2 small splits (2 frame) that I bought queens for breeding next year and they are small. I'm erring on the side of caution and leaving them to build at their own pace. Later I may add capped brood but not now.

JWPalmer

· #3 · Jul 19, 2020

Kinda echoing what Jim said, let the bees do what they do for another couple of days. You are right on the cusp of her laying. Make sure there is pollen in the nuc or put on a piece of pollen patty. Also make sure that there is a nectar or syrup supply. Once the queen has been laying for a week you can evaluate the size of the open brood area and determine if there are sufficient bees for coverage. If not, then add a frame of capped and emerging brood to give the hive a boost of nurse bees.

Saltybee

· #4 · Jul 19, 2020

I'd skip the 1 to 1.

Capped without the nurses can become dead brood. If you do make it a small patch, not a a slab of brood.

subjectively, open brood can kick off a queen to lay.

JWPalmer

· #5 · Jul 19, 2020

I missed reading the part about less nurse bees. In most cases, when transferring brood frames, you do it with adhering nurse bees.

Saltybee

· #6 · Jul 19, 2020

I would not in the same yard, a weak nuc, and any sign of robbing.

Kevinf

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jul 19, 2020

Thanks, All - I do have pollen patties in there as well as have been feeding, but will wait a bit longer. The fear of LWs is what drives the impatience to check.....

Saltybee - I did not track your last suggestion. Do you mean you would not insert a frame of capped brood with the adhering nurse bees?

Saltybee

· #8 · Jul 19, 2020

Those nurse bees are loyal to their queen for about a week and will rob your nuc blind. What they do not take will be taken by the field bee of their original hive .

A definite case of do not do the usual transfer with nurse bees.

35 days after split before starting to worry about no eggs. And then do not worry, go look carefully or add young brood for queen check.

Kevinf

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jul 22, 2020

So I did my first inspection of my split which I did on 6/20 and where I saw soon to emerge queens on 7/2.

The good news is that while I did not see the queen, there is plenty of larvae, but also a few patches of capped brood! That was a surprise for sure. There were two patches of capped brood about the size of my hand, maybe a little smaller. The queen must have been laying around 7/10-12 which seems a bit faster than the textbooks might suggest although I know there is tremendous variability.

I took another photo of the bar that had the queen cells. What do you make of those two capped cells near the bottom? Also, I note that it appears that perhaps four others may have emerged. I have read that the first queen emerges from the tip but then she tears the sides of the other queen cells to kill the unemerged queens. That does not appear to be what happened so maybe several emerged around the same time?

Bee Insect Boa Honeycomb Membrane-winged insect

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Saltybee

· #10 · Jul 22, 2020

Hard to say from a photo but most of those look like queen cups rather than developed cells to me.

Kevinf

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jul 22, 2020

2

Not sure if this will help but here is the same bar on 7/2 compared to the bar today so you can see a before and after.

Bee Honeybee Beehive Honeycomb Insect

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Saltybee

· #12 · Jul 22, 2020

Those were cells!

Kevinf

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jul 22, 2020

Yep, do you have any thoughts on this question -

I note that it appears that perhaps four others may have emerged. I have read that the first queen emerges from the tip but then she tears the sides of the other queen cells to kill the unemerged queens. That does not appear to be what happened so maybe several emerged around the same time?

Saltybee

· #14 · Jul 22, 2020

I read that as well. When she does it varies considerably from my observations. I've seen a virgin running about and successfully moved remaining cells to new successful splits.

Gray Goose

· #15 · Jul 22, 2020

Kevinf said:
Not sure if this will help but here is the same bar on 7/2 compared to the bar today so you can see a before and after.

View attachment 57477
View attachment 57479

the "doors" for the Q cells ..do they swing open and closed or are they still fastened all the way around. some times they open emerge and it seems to swing back closed.

could be the queen is out and the lid swung back to looking closed.

GG

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