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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So what recourse?

Seller says it's my responsibility to file USPS claim as he bought insurance!

Went to the post office, they could do nothing, everything has to be done online was their only answer. Had the USPS Customer Service Manager write a letter stating that 90% of the bees were dead on arrival. He even took pictures of the package to show his children at home. Since I was at the front counter it was kinda like 'Showtime' for over an hour with the kids and adults walking by asking questions. That AM the package had aroused a stir amongst the postal employees on the dock, because there were a few straggler bees on the exterior screen. Requested a PS 1000 Form over the phone, since for some reason my .pdf's weren't being imported by the USPS website.

My Credit Card company, Discover, has a policy of refund if I'm not satisfied.

So who has been in a similar situation? What route did you take? And the end results?
 

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I haven't been in your situation, but in general, when shipping insurance is purchased, I would file a claim with the shipping company first. If they deny your claim, then go to the vendor and see if they will do anything. I would use the credit card claim as a last resort.
 

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My understanding is that the shipper who bought the insurance must file the claim, at least that's been my experience with a shipment of dead queens. Shipper sent replacements and dealt with USPS himself.
 

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Were you guaranteed live bees upon arrival? Was it in writing?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I just figured someone else has been down this road before.

I contacted the seller by phone yesterday and e-mail today. So we'll see what develops. As a last case act I can bounce back the charge on my credit card, because I received nothing for my purchase, irregardless who's at fault the seller or his contracted delivery service (the USPS that HE selected). I proved my case by the written notice from the USPS Customer Service Manager's letter of 90% dead at delivery.

As I said I can't be the FIRST one that has ever been in this seat. So I thought I'd run it by some here.
 

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I had two packages arrive mostly drowned. I don't recall exact details but believe we documented it at the post office annex including taking photographs and getting an employee witness statement. We had to pick up a special USPS claim form and complete it and submit to them. The shipper ended up reimbursing our credit card, I think. I presume the shipper carried insurance and got paid by the postal service. Took a while, I think, but worked out. I gave my survivor bees to someone whose package in same shipment arrived live.
 

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If I have a queen shipment lost or killed in transit I make them good and file for the insurance as the shipper. The supplier shouldn't put that responibility on the buyer in my opinion.

Johnny
 

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If you cancel the charge on your credit card the shipper will most likely step up and file the claim himself. Of course, doing business with that supplier is probably over at that point...

Ed
Hence the reason that LOCAL pickup is always preferred or even Local grown..
 

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I ship glassware and from time to time those monkeys explode one. My customers recognize that we package them well and send us pics. We replace immediately (for customer satisfaction) and WE claim with USPS/ups.

We would NEVER make the customer do that!!
 

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Have to chime in here: The problem is not with the shipper. Its with the purchaser. You went with the cheap route to save the dough and now you are unhappy with the results of your choice.

For years people shipped bees by mail. Then the mail service started to ... lets say... suck. Some people still use it but its a BAD option for bees. There are alternatives but they are not cheap. If you search the internet you will find that we ... as do the few wise folks that ship bees rely exclusively on UPS.

THE bad news is the Expense. The GREAT news is the satisfied customers who get fresh bees that are not baked...

Our average success rate on the shipment of hundreds of packages a year has been in the 98.5% range for the last 6 years since we went exclusively to the "new" way of shipping.

We utilize UPS overnight air solely and have some other tricks up our sleeve to get them to there destination in superb shape. Build the box right and keeping them cool helps for sure.

Time and heat kills enclosed bees. When you went with the mail you de facto bought time and possible heat. What more would you expect?

This year our success rate is 100% if you exclude the guy in Montana who failed to warm up a package of bees that arrived at below the freezing point of water.

We have shipped almost 400 packages so far this year and have 160 going this coming week.

If you get a chance take a look at the tracking on the following. Its a pretty good representation of what we do. The bees leave our hands at 6:30 pm in California and arrive all over the US in less than 30 hours from the time they came out of their parent hives...

Put the following into Google and follow it through. This shipment was 12 hours and 8 minutes "DOOR to DOOR"

1Z2348Y40141505055

I could give you hundreds of other examples.

If you buy from those producers who know the smart thing to do is use overnight air for shipped bees you will have two heart attacks. Once when you see the price of the shipping and another when you see how good the bees arrive. Better to have two than one.. the one you had from getting dead bees.

Cherio as they say...... Good luck dealing with the post office and their "insurance." More tears on that vein have flowed than the current volume of the old Mississippi River.

If we open up for more shipment you can go with the method you should have used originally if you get over your current hearth condition.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Have to chime in here: The problem is not with the shipper. Its with the purchaser. You went with the cheap route to save the dough and now you are unhappy with the results of your choice.

For years people shipped bees by mail. Then the mail service started to ... lets say... suck. Some people still use it but its a BAD option for bees. There are alternatives but they are not cheap. If you search the internet you will find that we ... as do the few wise folks that ship bees rely exclusively on UPS.

THE bad news is the Expense. The GREAT news is the satisfied customers who get fresh bees that are not baked...

Our average success rate on the shipment of hundreds of packages a year has been in the 98.5% range for the last 6 years since we went exclusively to the "new" way of shipping.

We utilize UPS overnight air solely and have some other tricks up our sleeve to get them to there destination in superb shape. Build the box right and keeping them cool helps for sure.

Time and heat kills enclosed bees. When you went with the mail you de facto bought time and possible heat. What more would you expect?

This year our success rate is 100% if you exclude the guy in Montana who failed to warm up a package of bees that arrived at below the freezing point of water.

We have shipped almost 400 packages so far this year and have 160 going this coming week.

If you get a chance take a look at the tracking on the following. Its a pretty good representation of what we do. The bees leave our hands at 6:30 pm in California and arrive all over the US in less than 30 hours from the time they came out of their parent hives...

Put the following into Google and follow it through. This shipment was 12 hours and 8 minutes "DOOR to DOOR"

1Z2348Y40141505055

I could give you hundreds of other examples.

If you buy from those producers who know the smart thing to do is use overnight air for shipped bees you will have two heart attacks. Once when you see the price of the shipping and another when you see how good the bees arrive. Better to have two than one.. the one you had from getting dead bees.

Cherio as they say...... Good luck dealing with the post office and their "insurance." More tears on that vein have flowed than the current volume of the old Mississippi River.

If we open up for more shipment you can go with the method you should have used originally if you get over your current hearth condition.
I agree with much of your answer, but USPS was the only option given by the seller. I would have preferred UPS, as you stated USPS service ... SUCKS ... and I have had issues with USPS over the years.

If the decision of selecting the delivery carrier and their options were at my disposal, where I could make that decision, I agree I bear the brunt of that shipping responsibility due to MY choice. But that was NEVER the case, therefore the supplier bears the accountability as they selected the CHEAPEST (and only) delivery option versus driving over 200 miles (one-way) to their location. I agree UPS is a by far superior service to USPS.
 

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For packages and larger shipments of queens UPS is a good alternative to USPS. However on small queen orders UPS charges become cost prohibitive. I use USPS express mail and most shipments make it in 1 or 2 days. This year I have had a cpl that took 3 days but queens were fine.

Johnny
 

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For packages and larger shipments of queens UPS is a good alternative to USPS. However on small queen orders UPS charges become cost prohibitive. I use USPS express mail and most shipments make it in 1 or 2 days. This year I have had a cpl that took 3 days but queens were fine.

Johnny

I would agree 99% . Some locations UPS is better on overnight with the queens. UPS letter is a good way to go on 8 or less queens....
 

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> 1Z2348Y40141505055

Interesting that this "package" weighs 63 lbs according to UPS.



UPS is very good at what they do. But even UPS sometimes makes bonehead moves and kills shipped bees. You can read about Matt1954's UPS disaster story here:

http://www.beesource.com/forums/sho...e-Farms&p=800592&highlight=weekend#post800592


Couple of notes: you are correct on the weight. This was a purchase of 7 three pound packages with 4 extra queens.

As per the link about UPS "killing" them. I'm going to say its not UPS's fault under the rules the shipper tendered them under... The shipper was nuts to hand them over in the manner he did on a day that could kill them in your example. Why did he send them? Ignorance or stupidity?

In our package shipments we have eliminated almost all chances of ups killing them with a "stall or storage" as happened in your link. No driver, no distribution center, no trucking from distribution center to the planes. We haul them in an air conditioned van or trailer and they go from our hands being pre-cooled to the pods and on to the planes in less than 1/2 an hour. The planes are 100 yards away from where we unload them at 6:30- 6:45 Pm each ship evening.

With this method the only chance of a stall or storage in their way of moving overnight air is a weather delay. Since I am blessed to be about the only package guy in the US with only UPS plane options each day ( Sacramento and Oakland) both within 60 miles of or farm we have the option of using either the close or the coolest location depending on the weather.

We charge accordingly but it makes for great bees............

Here is the last one to arrive that day,

1Z2348Y40142107662

Look up the location... Miles from everywhere and the 70 year old newbie got them in great shape on a 90 degree day..

Happy customers....... I'm telling you...
 

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Maybe Ive just been lucky, and I have never asked them to handle a package, but USPS has done well with the queens I have recieved in the past. Priority arrives to me in 2 days from Tennessee and I have never had a problem, they call me at work, keep the package in the air conditioned office and even stay late if Im a few minutes late. Then they want me to open the package so they can see her. I guess its the perks of living in a small town. Sorry about your dilemma Lute, better luck in the future.
 

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I agree with much of your answer, but USPS was the only option given by the seller. I would have preferred UPS, as you stated USPS service ... SUCKS ... and I have had issues with USPS over the years.

If the decision of selecting the delivery carrier and their options were at my disposal, where I could make that decision, I agree I bear the brunt of that shipping responsibility due to MY choice. But that was NEVER the case, therefore the supplier bears the accountability as they selected the CHEAPEST (and only) delivery option versus driving over 200 miles (one-way) to their location. I agree UPS is a by far superior service to USPS.
Would you explain to me what gun the seller had to your head when YOU made the purchase. ????? Saying he gave you no option is a LOUSY excuse... You personally and no one else decided to choose the shipper with no option. Last time I checked you could have picked them up or gone with a different company. Are you serious???? Lame. Lame. Lame....

Do your homework before you purchase....

This sound like the young lady who purchased from us this past week to have bees shipped next week. Our website clearly says their are NO cancellations on order placed less than one week before its ship date. She even had her dad call me asking if I would relent and cancel after she found out that the peoples socialist republic of Minneapolis requires a PRE-inspection and authorization of the hive location before the bees are placed. ( get a load of that all you freedom lovers) She went on to tell me she had been working on this "bee thing" for a whole year and only after she order did she realize she painted herself in a pickle with the bureaucrat who either wouldn't or couldn't show up as she needed?

Not sure why people think it shippers problem when they FAIL to do there homework .........Which in my opinion was clearly the case in your situation. Your shipper is not your mother. Wipe your own face.
 

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> Minneapolis requires a PRE-inspection and authorization of the hive location ...

This struck me as a bit odd, so I looked it up. Here's the Code:

http://www.minneapolismn.gov/www/groups/public/@clerk/documents/webcontent/wcms1p-116408.pdf
Search for "74.80" or just page down to it.

Minneapolis does indeed require a pre-inspection of the site, and they charge a non-refundable fee of $100 to do so! :eek: If they deny your application, no refund. :no:

Also, section (5) of this code prohibits swarm traps! :scratch: But if the beekeeper performs a "public service" by collecting swarms from areas in the community where they are "not desired", then they may exceed the otherwise set maximum hive limit for a period of 30 days. :p
 
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