Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner

1 - 9 of 9 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have seen references on the Bee-L to using a 3 deep system. I am interested in learning what are the benfits of this system, when is it best to add the 3rd deep and is the 3rd deep removed for wintering or left on? Will this system ulimately increase the # of bees and therefore the yield or is there some other benefit? Is there a reference I can go to for more information? Thanks...
 

·
Vendor
Local feral survivors in eight frame medium boxes.
Joined
·
54,108 Posts
Clay uses this. Maybe he will expound more on his reasons.

I've gone to mediums now and try to run four or five mediums for the brood area and I'll try to give my reasons for that.

I used to run three deeps and found it cumbersome handling the full deep boxes so went back to two until I went to the mediums. Also, since there are three every time you look for a queen you not only have more boxes (and frames) to look in, but also have to lift full deeps to get to two of them.

The basic concept is called "unlimited brood nest" and the idea is that you give the queen more room to lay and you leave more feed on for winter. You could think of it as two brood boxes and a food chamber. If you run deeps, this is three deeps. If you run mediums for brood this is four to five mediums. Sometimes when brood-rearing reaches it's peak the queen will run out of room in a double deep setup. (Or three mediums) The idea is to make sure she has plenty of room to lay. But also, from my observation the bees come out more consistently strong in the spring and are assured of not running out of stores with the extra box of honey and pollen to use in the spring. The bees seem more willing to start seriously raising brood when there is an abundance of stores available for the job.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks Mike...While I have you on the line. If I follow your cut down method, can I put the queen right deep back on the original hive as long as the hive has not raised a new queen and the risk of swarming is over?
 

·
Vendor
Local feral survivors in eight frame medium boxes.
Joined
·
54,108 Posts
Certainly. You can just put them back on and let the bees sort it out or you can kill the old queen and you've now requeened the hive.

Of course if you lost some hives over winter, you can leave the best ones to replentish your hives.

Also, I certainly did not invent the cut-down split method. It has been proposed and perfected by many comb honey experts over the years.


[This message has been edited by Michael Bush (edited March 08, 2004).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,340 Posts
>>Will this system ulimately increase the # of bees and therefore the yield or is there some other benefit? Is there a reference I can go to for more information? Thanks...

Three deeps is not nessecary for brood rearing, especially where you beekeep. Sometimes beekeepers far up in Northern Canada use three deeps, but mainly only becasue of increased food needed for wintering their stock.
I run two deeps and find it way more than enough room for the queen. After doing the math, you will find that even one chamber is sufficient to satisfy the queens need, although anexcluder and little more attention to space and resource requirements is needed. Even in peak brood rearing times, most queens dont lay over 2000 eggs a day for verylong.
I produced 185lbs average of honey in doubles and singles last year. The singles yeilded more because of the extra honeychamber harvested. The doubles are wintered outside, and the singles inside.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
970 Posts
Hey,

Here is what I have written on using three deeps:
http://wave.prohosting.com/clay2720/4.9mm_comb_drawing.htm/ULBN.txt


Note: the section at the bottom of the page I wrote that is a direct quote from the Root's.

Also some more info to look up in the Hive and the honeybee. In the chapter on wintering it was shown that bees wintered in 3 deeps wintered the best. (I don't have my copy handy at the moment). It eliminates for the most part the need for queen excluders during honey production. Feeding will be reduced to a minimum.

If you have specific questions just ask?

To answer your questions you asked:

>when is it best to add the 3rd deep and is >the 3rd deep removed for wintering or left >on?

It is just like adding the second deep when starting a package or building up a nuc. So when the bees have most of the second deep drawn out, I then bait up. Yes all three are used year round. Some years when starting bees from packages they only build up to 2 deep colonies, I will winter them that way and add the third the following year.

>Will this system ulimately increase the # >of bees and therefore the yield or is there >some other benefit?

If the bees are managed properly the method aims at maximizing population which is often proportional to honey production. However the strain of bee, skill of the beekeeper plays a role here too along with other factors.

The method has reduced swarming for me to around 2%. I also like the fact that it give ample resources for making up splits or nucs. I already mentioned the feeding part. If all the equipment is the same (deep in this case) you will have maximum flexibility and combs can universally be moved about. A note on this would be limited to chemical treatment of bees however. What I mean is you shouldn't swap chemically treated comb from the broodnest into the supers. However that isn't an issue for me as I use no treatments. If I were to use one I would go with FGMO as it is non contaminating.

regards,

Clay
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
929 Posts
Clayton,
Would you post that article you wrote on the beewiki?
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Top