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Discussion Starter #21
At least take some action while waiting for test kits and vfd! Shake out on clean foundation, feed, requeen are all actions that could have been taken. Or just kill them off.

I do know many beekeepers who know when and how to properly deal with a historic brood ailment like efb, but most of all they know how to detect it before it infects the whole operation and take action.
Same with afb.


There was a uptick in efb this spring in NY, anyone who pays attention expected it due to the late, wet, cold spring- and took care of it. Smart beekeepers know their bees.
is that to say you know personally many beekeepers having first hand experience with bona fide laboratory confirmed efb, and that these were successful in quickly eradicating the bacteria so that there was very little spread and no residual or recurring disease requiring retreatment or prophylactic treatment for awhile?

i'll commend ya'll for that; but even the brits who have been doing scientific comparisons of those various interventions you list are quick to admit that once entrenched in an apiary mellisococcus plutonius is pretty hard to eradicate.

i missed early detection and quick intervention that's for sure. it's hard to quantify how much spreading to nearby hives occurred while i was waiting for a diagnosis.

the first two affected colonies were a little bit small coming out of winter compared to average, probably from doing a less than average job dealing with the high mite counts back during the previous fall brood up of winter bees. i chalked up these first two as having an issue with chilled brood, which was likely occuring after sharp drop in temperature.

heckfire, the oldtimers as well as the state apiarists here couldn't tell me the last time efb had been diagnosed anywhere near here, so i wasn't really thinking efb.

the irony is that coming out of winter is the time in the yearly cycle that i am going into my hives most frequently, as in at least once a week and sometimes more if splitting ect. and not just popping the top, but rather going through the broodnests to checkerboard and open up the nest and pyramid brood up to the next box ect.

over the course of just one to two brood cycless those beautiful solid brood patterns seen especially in the strongest colonies (2+ 10 frame deeps worth of bees) went from wall to wall solid capped brood to less than 25% still capped with the nonviable brood removed by the nurse bees. the open brood was also spotty with not very many old larvae, but rather mostly young larvae with a few of them and their jelly turning bright yellow.

i'll be spreading mine out and won't exceed 3 or 4 hives per yard with a least a mile or separation going forward. anything positive on the vita efb test will be considered hazardous waste and treated as such.
 

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There are so many small stories I could tell you. One for example, had a bee coming to his balcony in the midst of the town. He was thinking that this bee lost it's home. Catched it with a tea infuser (you read right), got on a bus and drove all the way up to me in the country. Set the bee free in front of my house. Wrote me a note, that I please set up a bee hive, that the bee can find a home...

Those people are so far away what I call the real world, that I sometimes wonder how those people are able to survive.
What a lovely story ...

There is another guy (a Brit, I believe) who has come up with the idea of people who want to 'Save the Bees' can carry a credit-card which has been modified to hold a few drops of sugar solution, so that an emergency supply of syrup can be given to any bee that appears to be hungry. Strange times ...
LJ
 

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If you're not really sure on the issue, pull a frame of larva at night, the yellow will really stand out then and be very apparent, especially on older comb.
 

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Squarepeg: What kind of hygienic precautions do/will you take going from hive to hive or apiary to apiary? When the state apiarist inspected my hives for suspected efb (neg thankfully), he scrubbed his hive tool with water and comet cleanser with bleach and then soaked in alcohol. I do not know what, if anything he did with his suit/jacket. Nancy (Enjambres) who was kind enough to help me out dedicated a efb suit which she left here so as not to risk contamination to her apiary. J
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Squarepeg: What kind of hygienic precautions do/will you take going from hive to hive or apiary to apiary?

good question, and the short answer is probably not as much as i should be fivej.

i use throw away nitrile gloves for handling frames.

i sterilize my hive tools by spraying them with alcohol, wiping them dry with a paper towel, and then flaming them with a propane torch.

i'll wash my suit every now and then.

i'll be more careful about transferring equipment and stores from one hive to another.

if i have to do much more than that to keep bees i'll probably hang it up.
 

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Squarepeg: I do not know what, if anything he did with his suit/jacket. Nancy (Enjambres) who was kind enough to help me out dedicated a efb suit which she left here so as not to risk contamination to her apiary. J
the suit or cloths is the part that I really suspect is the piece of equipment that causes the problems, the few times I have been inspected they wore a veil and long sleeve shirt, they either switched hive tools and washed hands between yards, but the arms of the shirt were in contact with every hive. I carry a chefs "bib" in my truck that covers their bodies, but the sleeves are a problem. I'm not particularly worried about my own yard to yard, it's the other peoples yards that he came from that bother me.
 

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What a lovely story ...

There is another guy (a Brit, I believe) who has come up with the idea of people who want to 'Save the Bees' can carry a credit-card which has been modified to hold a few drops of sugar solution, so that an emergency supply of syrup can be given to any bee that appears to be hungry. Strange times ...
LJ
I wonder how they know a bee is hungry?
 

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the suit or cloths is the part that I really suspect is the piece of equipment that causes the problems, the few times I have been inspected they wore a veil and long sleeve shirt, they either switched hive tools and washed hands between yards, but the arms of the shirt were in contact with every hive. I carry a chefs "bib" in my truck that covers their bodies, but the sleeves are a problem. I'm not particularly worried about my own yard to yard, it's the other peoples yards that he came from that bother me.
Boots too! I may have brought the EFB home that way myself but I have not seen bee inspectors doing more than shining up their hive tools! I have seen veterinarians being very cavalier about moving disease one farm to another. The old deal about rasping horses teeth was a dandy example! Ever try to sanitize a rasp?:rolleyes:

Off topic but a good parallel. Trying to sanitize bee equipment without causing worse contamination would be a formidable task.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
melissococcus plutonius is an anaerobic bacteria. for most anaerobes oxygen is toxic and they cannot survive long when exposed to it.

i've not been able to put my hands on any studies that show how easy it is or not to grow m.p. off of tools, clothes, ect., let alone say a frame of empty comb with no stores of any kind in it.

on the other hand it's easy to see how the organism could thrive at the bottom of a cell containing beebread or honey.
 

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Our inspector doesn't touch anything or use a hive tool. He wears latex gloves and changes them between inspections. I hope these precautions are adequate.

Alex
 

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Discussion Starter #31
fortunately the bacteria associated with efb doesn't form long lived and virtually indestructible spores as is the case with afb.

afb is the one where you might as well through everything into a pit and then burn and bury, unless you have ionizing radiation available.

it would be helpful if some research types would look into how long and under what conditions m.p. can remain viable.

the folks at beltsville offered to test any equipment ect. that i wanted to send them. i thought about sending some of the empty comb from efb infected hives that i have rinsed out and then bleached to see if they could grow any m.p. off of it.

as of right now the strongest colony i have is a caught swarm that i installed into a double deep full of washed and bleached comb out of efb dead outs.
 

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fortunately the bacteria associated with efb doesn't form long lived and virtually indestructible spores as is the case with afb.

afb is the one where you might as well through everything into a pit and then burn and bury, unless you have ionizing radiation available.

it would be helpful if some research types would look into how long and under what conditions m.p. can remain viable.

the folks at beltsville offered to test any equipment ect. that i wanted to send them. i thought about sending some of the empty comb from efb infected hives that i have rinsed out and then bleached to see if they could grow any m.p. off of it.

as of right now the strongest colony i have is a caught swarm that i installed into a double deep full of washed and bleached comb out of efb dead outs.
https://youtu.be/z0B9o4GHq7U
UK honey show video on AFB/EFB I am not sure who has seen it. ?I don’t remember how in-depth it was regarding the lifetime of EFB outside the hive. I’ll watch again.
 

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Interestingly the EFB is found in the honey of an infected hive and can be transmitted that way.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
thanks deb. i provided bernhard a link to that same video in post #5 of this thread.

dr. stainton doesn't go into detail about how long efb can survive outside a hive.

after an exhaustive search of the literature, i've given up on looking for an answer to that question. i don't believe anyone has looked at it.

it can hide in honey and beebread where it is protected from oxygen.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
bernhard if you are still following the thread,

how would the authorities there deal with a case of a beginner beekeeper purchasing 4 hives of bees and then completely neglect them, resulting in the collapse of all 4, and do this same thing for 3 years in a row for a total of 12 collapsed colonies? (assume nothing was done to prevent the robbing out of these hives after the collapses)

would the neighboring beekeepers have a legitimate complaint and could they compel the authorities to refuse a license to the negligent beekeeper?

in my state of alabama, the authorities tell me there is nothing that our laws allow them to do about this, and that such a beekeeper can continue to carry on doing this if they wish.

the only exception here is with afb, in which case a law allows the state authorities to come in and destroy the afb infected hives.

if my understanding is corrrect, a similar mandatory destruction directive is now in effect for efb hives in switzerland, and if over 50% of the hives in an apiary are infected then 100% of the hives are destroyed.
 

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Interestingly the EFB is found in the honey of an infected hive and can be transmitted that way.
A good reason not to share honey among the hives or if you do, not to share it between apiaries. Also, feed sugar water to your caged/banked queens, not honey. Something I did before I knew better. J
 

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in my state of alabama, the authorities tell me there is nothing that our laws allow them to do about this, and that such a beekeeper can continue to carry on doing this if they wish.

the only exception here is with afb, in which case a law allows the state authorities to come in and destroy the afb infected hives.
Same here.
 
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