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Interesting enough, in Europe we have the "American Foulbrood" and in North America you find the "European Foulbrood". :)

I know, different bacteria. Still interesting that we don't have much EFB in Europe. (Except Switzerland, where it is epidemic.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
anecdotal reports here in the u.s. suggest the prevalence and virulence of efb is increasing with time.

the swiss have adopted a mandatory destruction by fire program and are making progress with eradication.

the u.k. leads the world in efb understanding and management by having a centralized program for dna typing of the various strains of efb.
 

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the u.k. leads the world in efb understanding and management by having a centralized program for dna typing of the various strains of efb.
Didn't know that. Either we don't look careful enough or there is much less EFB. In Germany at least. All we deal with is AFB here.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
understood bernhard. the current thinking is that efb is morphing and becoming more of a threat. discovering efb bacteria can live for a long time in beebread and honey makes it more like afb in that the equipment has to be dealt with as well.

here is a very informative video presentation that is worth looking at when you have some spare time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0B9o4GHq7U&feature=youtu.be
 

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the u.k. leads the world in efb understanding and management by having a centralized program for dna typing of the various strains of efb.
It's likely the Brits don't know they are leading the world in efb understanding and management either! :scratch:

anecdotal reports here in the u.s. suggest the prevalence and virulence of efb is increasing with time.
Only in the SE US.
Traditional terramycin (or even tylosin) not effective if diagnosed and action taken timely? or is the secondary infections the problem?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Only in the SE US.
i don't believe that is accurate.

when i say 'anecdotal' i am referring to direct personal communications with the leading bee entomology professor at auburn university, the research leader at beltsville bee lab in maryland, and the chief apiary inspector for alabama's apiary protection unit.

i'll defer to these 'experts' and when they tell me that efb is on the rise nationwide i'll accept that until i see evidence to the contrary.

all one has to do is look over the threads linked in post #1 on this thread to see reports of efb outbreaks in the u.s. including the southeast and elsewhere.

waiting for efb test kits and the time delay with obtaining the vfd necessary for ordering antibiotics can certainly contribute to efb advancing through an apiary and reaching a point of no return despite eventual treatment.

the surprising and most concerning facts the brits have uncovered are the ease at which the bacteria can spread within a yard and to nearby yards and the length of time the bacteria stays active in the food stores. they also prove that antibiotic treatment alone doesn't do much to keep efb from showing back up later.
 

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Didn't know that. Either we don't look careful enough or there is much less EFB. In Germany at least. All we deal with is AFB here.
correct me if I'm wrong as I never have paid much attention to it, but do you have large commercial beeks going from one end of the continent to the other? and how about package and nuc sales?
 

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i don't believe that is accurate.

when i say 'anecdotal' i am referring to direct personal communications with the leading bee entomology professor at auburn university, the research leader at beltsville bee lab in maryland, and the chief apiary inspector for alabama's apiary protection unit.

i'll defer to these 'experts' and when they tell me that efb is on the rise nationwide i'll accept that until i see evidence to the contrary.

all one has to do is look over the threads linked in post #1 on this thread to see reports of efb outbreaks in the u.s. including the southeast and elsewhere.

waiting for efb test kits and the time delay with obtaining the vfd necessary for ordering antibiotics can certainly contribute to efb advancing through an apiary and reaching a point of no return despite eventual treatment.

the surprising and most concerning facts the brits have uncovered are the ease at which the bacteria can spread within a yard and to nearby yards and the length of time the bacteria stays active in the food stores. they also prove that antibiotic treatment alone doesn't do much to keep efb from showing back up later.
I sense by this response that you have found yourself a new boogeyman ( eh new virulent strain, eh new enemy ) to combat. Sure hope the special queen genetics isn't going by the wayside now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I sense by this response that you have found yourself a new boogeyman...
you sense wrong clyde.

i was hoping you might sense that there is more to efb than some are acknowledging but alas, i'll hope no more.

i don't believe in boogeymen nor did i have any battles to fight with respect to my bees thriving off treatments season after season until some out of state packages were installed down the road and allowed to collapse...

are we still using prophylactic antibiotics in the spring and fall up there?
 

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you sense wrong clyde.

i was hoping you might sense that there is more to efb than some are acknowledging but alas, i'll hope no more.

i don't believe in boogeymen nor did i have any battles to fight with respect to my bees thriving off treatments season after season until some out of state packages were installed down the road and allowed to collapse...

are we still using prophylactic antibiotics in the spring and fall up there?
Only time will tell if I sense wrongly about your new found boogeyman or not.

Blame, blame, blame. How about the beekeepers' responsibility and their inability to detect efb in their bees in a timely manner and treat it?
At least take some action while waiting for test kits and vfd! Shake out on clean foundation, feed, requeen are all actions that could have been taken. Or just kill them off. Does anyone do that anymore? or do they wait and 'do nothing if they are unsure'?
It's a game for many, these bees, until it hits home and the pocketbook. Playing the game until it hurts, then get spooked and rationalize it away.

We? Up there? still using?
I live on a Island, I'm a stationary beekeeper, I raise my own bees, most times I know what comes in here and most times from who.

I'll bet my combs and equipment do not test + for antibiotics, can you make that same bet with yours?
I don't know who treats prophylacticly, or if anyone actually does. I do know many beekeepers who know when and how to properly deal with a historic brood ailment like efb, but most of all they know how to detect it before it infects the whole operation and take action.
Same with afb.
There was a uptick in efb this spring in NY, anyone who pays attention expected it due to the late, wet, cold spring- and took care of it. Smart beekeepers know their bees.

It's a whole lot easier to talk about bees than it is to actually keep bees. Nothing has changed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Only time will tell...
yes, spring 2020 will upon us soon and we'll see what reporting we get with respect to efb.


Blame, blame, blame. How about the beekeepers' responsibility and their inability to detect efb in their bees in a timely manner and treat it?
yes, i was very frank about blaming myself for getting caught with my pants down, perhaps you missed that post. my motivation for sharing the experience here is that others may be more prepared than i was.


Or just kill them off.
yes, and destroying the infected comb will be my approach going forward.


I don't know who treats prophylacticly, or if anyone actually does.
that's good to hear.


Nothing has changed.
nope, sure hasn't.
 

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It's likely the Brits don't know they are leading the world in efb understanding and management either! :scratch:



Only in the SE US.
Traditional terramycin (or even tylosin) not effective if diagnosed and action taken timely? or is the secondary infections the problem?
Check out Enjambres (Nancy Wicker) ordeal with EFB, up in the Albany area. Nasty.
 

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correct me if I'm wrong as I never have paid much attention to it, but do you have large commercial beeks going from one end of the continent to the other? and how about package and nuc sales?
Yes, we have large commercial beekeepers, mostly ranging from 1,000-3,000 hives, there are two with 7,000 hives and another in Austria with 10,000 hives. Of course we don't have as many like in the US, but we are a much smaller country.

And of course those commercials (including myself as a rather small commercial) going back and forth the country (and into other countries, too) while hunting the honey across the country. We don't have the pollination business, though.

What we have is a myriad of beekeeping beginners that want to "save the bees", but have no clue about bees (not a problem) and are not wanting to learn more about bees and beekeeping (problem).

They set out foreign imported honey in their gardens to "feed the bees". If that is not enough, they wrote articles in newspapers and on the internet to encourage other people (public, no beeholders or beekeepers) to follow. What a help...

There are so many small stories I could tell you. One for example, had a bee coming to his balcony in the midst of the town. He was thinking that this bee lost it's home. Catched it with a tea infuser (you read right), got on a bus and drove all the way up to me in the country. Set the bee free in front of my house. Wrote me a note, that I please set up a bee hive, that the bee can find a home...

Those people are so far away what I call the real world, that I sometimes wonder how those people are able to survive.
 

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Recognizing and acting on the very first signs of EFB is excellent advice; as usual though, the devil is in the details.

The first signs of EFB in a well populated hive would easily go unnoticed. With plenty of nurse bees the affected larvae are quickly removed. They dont get to the large, discolored and slumping stage that is so obvious in advanced cases. The vacated cells appear as a bit spotty brood, but this is common in cold climate spring colonies as a lot of cells are empty for occupation by heater bees. In early stages there will not be the secondary infections which are responsible for the commonly reported odors so that might not be an indicator.

I missed the first signs for certain and the delay in acting cost me colonies. I even made moves that are commonly recommended but dead wrong for verified Monococcus Plutons infection.

Reading some of Flowerplanters advice was helpful. I remember thinking (long before I had the problem) that he was way over the top about EFB. I dont think that now!

Things got to be like this before I took action.
 

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I agree! This happened with a swarm my husband picked up; as soon as I saw the symptoms I dumped the whole hive; box, bees and frames. Grateful it was a small one. After viewing the UK’s National Honey Show videos on EFB and some people on this forums experiences lately, I am very cautious.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
There are so many small stories I could tell you.
we thank you for sharing them bernhard.

is it true that in germany beekeepers are required by law to use chemical treatments for varroa? and that they are subject to inspection for varroa by the government authorities?

is it also in germany illegal to hang swarm traps in the spring?

also interested in your book when it's ready for publication.
 

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is it true that in germany beekeepers are required by law to use chemical treatments for varroa? and that they are subject to inspection for varroa by the government authorities?
Not really. It is regulated in the law, but somewhat vague. No word of chemical treatment, just treatments. There never has been a case where someone got fined for not treating.

It is stupid anyway. Varroosis is said to be a disease and has to be treated. But...we have a "animal disease fund". In case of losses by a disease, the beekeeper gets financial compensation. Well, except for varroa losses although it is listed as a disease in the law. So it is a listed disease and you should treat for mites, but in case of losses you don't get compensation although it is the law you get it.

I guess, they don't say much if you are not treating and on the other hand you have to help yourself in case of losses. Everybody is fine with that.

is it also in germany illegal to hang swarm traps in the spring?
Not only in Spring, all year round. The law says that all bee hives that are capable to house bees, have to be shut in case it is empty. Especially combs are not allowed in the open.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
many thanks for the clarifications bernhard.

i'm guessing that those reading in other countries will find it strange that swarm traps are outlawed in germany.

so if a beekeeper in germany is not doing a good job with mite control season after season and affecting the neighboring beekeepers will the authorities deny that beekeeper a license to keep bees?

i wonder what the authorities in germany do if they should come up on a case of efb or afb? perhaps there is not much efb there due to mandatory destruction, like it is in switzerland?
 
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