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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Where oh where did the modified 12 frame dadant go? It was tall and almost too heavy to pick up when it's full of brood & honey. Does anybody have any frames from one of those hives sitting on a shelf somewhere? They'd be nice to use when mocking up dimensions on the table saw.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
It was a pretty simple monster, and dadant did carry some stuff for it up until the early 90's for atleast 1 old timer in wi. I can imagine that it was the leftovers of a pallet from the 1960's that was left dusty for the 1 guy...But thats about it. Imagine what they'd have to make the top bars out of now to hold that much weight(comb & brood)... Did you ever see any of those 12 frames? The junk pallet pine in use today wouldn't stand a chance if you dropped it wrong. The frame ears would snap off like tooth pics. I've got wedge bottom bars on frames hand-ink stamped 1944 that are tougher than what the top bars of the frames are now.
 

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>Where oh where did the modified 12 frame dadant go? It was tall and almost too heavy to pick up when it's full of brood & honey. Does anybody have any frames from one of those hives sitting on a shelf somewhere? They'd be nice to use when mocking up dimensions on the table saw.

Assuming you are making it with one bys, the box is 19 7/8" by 19 7/8" on the outside. The frame rest is 3/8" wide and 5/8" deep. The box is 11 5/8" deep (a little more than a one by twelve) assuming you are making a separate bottom to normal dimensions. The frames are 11 1/4" deep. You can find plans on Beesource for standard frames, just change the 9 1/4" dimensions to 11 1/4". Since the bottom is seldom removed anyway, I'd be tempted to make it a bit taller and the box out of a one by twelve (which is 11 1/4").

It is a popular hive in Europe, particularlly France. Once in a while someone on here offers to make custom frames.
I have a few, but don't have any bees in any right now. Some of mine are 22 frames (32 1/4" wide).
 

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Discussion Starter #6
How are the top bars from the standard deep frames holding up when you've got a full comb of honey on both sides?...You're not having issues with the ears lifting up? You're going to need to post some pics of those frames on here. I'm getting sick of dragging different sized boxes around for small honey crops. What's the trick in doing the groves on the side bars for the top & bottom bar... Run dados through the chop saw cuts, then dice the side bars off with a bandsaw?
 

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Rossman was selling 11 1/4" frames. You have to call, not in their catalog. I have never had problems with the topbar sagging, but the bottom bar sags on some.
In the extracting room:



 

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I had some in the 60's and 70's. At that time Western Bee Supply had them in stock. Are you sure they no longer have them? I'd be mildly surprised if not, as there were thousands of these in the Midwest. These boxes were not meant for moving...or for pollination. They were meant as a single brood deep, never to be lifted when full. They would overwinter just fine in WI, MN, etc. Check Western Bee Supply, and let the List know what you find. (But, they will not be in the catalog, you will have to call to get an accurate answer.)
Ron
 

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I have been thinking about building a few 12 frame Dadant's, except I would shave the frames down to 1 1/4", then I could get 13 frames in it. I think the idea of much deeper comb for the broodnest was a good one when the idea first originated, but I assume it went the way of the dinosaur in later years because of the weight issue of the whole box and each individual frame by itself. With a box that size, I wonder how well the queen lays beyond the centermost 8 frames? I'm thinking during the peak brood rearing and swarming season you may want to rotate the outer frames of comb (if they are mostly worker cell and fairly empty) into the center of the broodnest to open it up and give the queen room to lay.
 

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I'm thinking during the peak brood rearing and swarming season you may want to rotate the outer frames of comb (if they are mostly worker cell and fairly empty) into the center of the broodnest to open it up and give the queen room to lay.
Myself, I always wondered how to handle swarm prevention with these large frames. Not like you can just open the brood nest and start another nuc with them.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Myself, I always wondered how to handle swarm prevention with these large frames. Not like you can just open the brood nest and start another nuc with them.
Box-net-etc. If you read the old books, that's how some of them used to deal with the skeps.
 

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I am in Menomonee Falls, Send me a PM, i will look next time I am at the shop. I think threre is one frame in the rafters, and we use a stack of 3 as a scraping stand.

Roland Diehnelt
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I have been thinking about building a few 12 frame Dadant's, except I would shave the frames down to 1 1/4", then I could get 13 frames in it. I think the idea of much deeper comb for the broodnest was a good one when the idea first originated, but I assume it went the way of the dinosaur in later years because of the weight issue of the whole box and each individual frame by itself. With a box that size, I wonder how well the queen lays beyond the centermost 8 frames? I'm thinking during the peak brood rearing and swarming season you may want to rotate the outer frames of comb (if they are mostly worker cell and fairly empty) into the center of the broodnest to open it up and give the queen room to lay.
Alot of the duragilt type foundation and old wax foundation for the big hive frames would be made/modified with communication holes like the duragilt that is sold today...Some old guys would plug holes in the corners so the bees could get around inside the hives easier.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I asked Western Bee Supply and and they were out and I asked if they could make a run of them and was told their new equipment will not adjust to make the deep frames...
That's a fancy way of saying we have no desire to square up fences and jigs to do a small batch of frames that only one person wants in a small amount. They'd have to reset everything SQUARED-ZEROED jigs, fences, depth adjustments, etc.
 

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The frame is the same exact thing as any other frame except for one main thing, the length of the sidebar. Unless their machines are way more complicated than I think, seems they could make a couple adjustments easily to do a run of the longer sidebars every now and then for their stockpile.
 

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>That's a fancy way of saying we have no desire to square up fences and jigs to do a small batch of frames that only one person wants in a small amount.

They had been doing it since they started in business and up until about 2002 or so, so I think it may actually be that their new automated frame cutting equipment won't adjust that far as they said.
 

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11 1/4" endbars should really be 3/8" thick because they bow easlily with wiring. That would make the top and bottom bars different. The Rossman frames bow with wiring, but work adequately. 11 1/4" frame bottom bars also bow if too thin. The biggest problem is finding an extractor to fit them when some honey purging is necessary.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
What's the tightest frame to box ration a guy could shove in a 10 frame langstroth?... 10 frames are hard to pull out of the box, but can be loaded up with large italian bees drawing out the comb. Laying, drawing, etc. If a person were to be working with small bees...Can the frame amount with modification(homemade frames) be pushed higher?...12 doundation in a 10 frame box, etc?
 
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