Beesource Beekeeping Forums banner
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
376 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So...I didn't know that some of the British friends use 11 frame hives. I found this out by accident, though I had seen some videos where British Beeks were using hives that looked different from ours (North America - Langstroth etc.)

I don't mind that they have their own devices. Its fine.

Although I'm curious if they are getting more out of it? How does the performance compare?

Somebody must have tried both those and the 10 0r 8 frame standards and compared right...?

Don't you feel curious?

(Although maybe it just makes them that much heavier and back breaking to move around?)

And any advantages in hive survival with an extra frame?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
197 Posts
Our 11 frame National is smaller in volume than a standard Langstroth I think. See A detailed description of the types of beehives in general use. ... National : brood chamber 50,000 cells, full super 25 lb, 10 frame Langstroth 61,400 cells, full super 30 lb (but depth not stated).

I've only used Nationals so can't make a comparison. But ... they're just boxes to keep bees in. I don't think one is fundamentally better than another. I'd use Langs if it was what I'd started with and what was routinely available.

There are a variety of depths and I don't know what 'standard' refers to above. We also have deep National brood boxes.

And to add to the confusion ... some poly Nationals only take 10 frames.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
376 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Our 11 frame National is smaller in volume than a standard Langstroth I think. See A detailed description of the types of beehives in general use. ... National : brood chamber 50,000 cells, full super 25 lb, 10 frame Langstroth 61,400 cells, full super 30 lb (but depth not stated).

I've only used Nationals so can't make a comparison. But ... they're just boxes to keep bees in. I don't think one is fundamentally better than another. I'd use Langs if it was what I'd started with and what was routinely available.

There are a variety of depths and I don't know what 'standard' refers to above. We also have deep National brood boxes.

And to add to the confusion ... some poly Nationals only take 10 frames.
I'd heard that some people will purposely put 1 frame less than whatever the box is for, and they claim the bees then make the other frames fatter to make up for it. (I haven't tried this myself. But some people say its very neat trick.)
 

·
Moderator - In Memorium
Aylett, VA 10-frame double deep Langstroth
Joined
·
6,882 Posts
I'd heard that some people will purposely put 1 frame less than whatever the box is for, and they claim the bees then make the other frames fatter to make up for it. (I haven't tried this myself. But some people say its very neat trick.)
This technique is used in honey supers to make the frames easier to uncap. It is not a good strategy for the brood boxes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ankklackning

·
Registered
Joined
·
376 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
This technique is used in honey supers to make the frames easier to uncap. It is not a good strategy for the brood boxes.
So if you use it outside the brood boxes...would it also be hard to do in a first year hive? (I thought someone said something about this but I can't remember. It seemed like there was somewhere someone said something about it needing more time also. Maybe I'm wrong.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,030 Posts
So if you use it outside the brood boxes...would it also be hard to do in a first year hive? (I thought someone said something about this but I can't remember. It seemed like there was somewhere someone said something about it needing more time also. Maybe I'm wrong.)
If un drawn honey super frames are not tightly space they get drawn out unevenly. Some will be two inches wide and adjacent frames drawn so shallow that they are hard to uncap. The xtra thick ones leaves too much honey in the cappings with some uncapping methods. Heavy and light mix of combs creates a bad balance issue in the extractor.

Space them tight and after the first few extractions they can be spaced out to have only 9 or even 8 frames in a 10 frame box. It is best if you have even spacing of frames in succeeding boxes in a stack but that is not a game changer.
 

·
Moderator - In Memorium
Aylett, VA 10-frame double deep Langstroth
Joined
·
6,882 Posts
This will be the first year I try 9 frame spacing in some of my supers. Last extraction was the first time I used a knife to uncap, so most of the frames are nice and even now. Brood frames are similar in that if you do not keep them tight, you will get thick spots that makes it impossible to put the frame anywhere else and the corresponding thin spot on the adjacent frame is useless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ankklackning

·
Registered
5 ,8 ,10 frame, and long Lang
Joined
·
3,379 Posts
This will be the first year I try 9 frame spacing in some of my supers. Last extraction was the first time I used a knife to uncap, so most of the frames are nice and even now. Brood frames are similar in that if you do not keep them tight, you will get thick spots that makes it impossible to put the frame anywhere else and the corresponding thin spot on the adjacent frame is useless.
JWP
you will like the thicker combs from the 9 space. easier to uncap, 90 frames get you 10 supers etc.
This year I did some at 8 per 10 frame, was even better. you do need the "drawn comb" to do the 8

when extracting I cut them back to the top bar and do have a lot of cappings to drain.

BTW in the spring, you can shake the bees off the thick frames and with the uncapping knife cut them back, usually have crystalized honey by then.

GG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,030 Posts
JWP
you will like the thicker combs from the 9 space. easier to uncap, 90 frames get you 10 supers etc.
This year I did some at 8 per 10 frame, was even better. you do need the "drawn comb" to do the 8

when extracting I cut them back to the top bar and do have a lot of cappings to drain.

BTW in the spring, you can shake the bees off the thick frames and with the uncapping knife cut them back, usually have crystalized honey by then.

GG
I agree with the thicker combs in extracting supers but have to agree with JWP of the undesirability of thick and thin areas on brood comb. If the bees built surfaces uniformly across the frame it would not be the same issue but I find they get rather interlocked. I have used 9 frames but still would insist on them being pushed tight together.
In my climate comb gets drawn much slower and more irregularly than further south so others may see a different experience but I think we can all agree that extended spacing with undrawn frames (especially foundationless) will not make for happy campers.
 

·
Moderator - In Memorium
Aylett, VA 10-frame double deep Langstroth
Joined
·
6,882 Posts
GG, I find that if I don't cut them back even with the top bar, I have trouble getting the frames into the extracor baskets. Did end up with a lot of cappings, but used the incubator as a warming box and they drained fairly quickly.
 

·
Registered
5 ,8 ,10 frame, and long Lang
Joined
·
3,379 Posts
GG, I find that if I don't cut them back even with the top bar, I have trouble getting the frames into the extracor baskets. Did end up with a lot of cappings, but used the incubator as a warming box and they drained fairly quickly.
JWP
do not tell any one,, but the cuppings honey is of the C&S type and the extractor honey can get oxidized.
I keep them separate and use the cappings myself, and sell it to the "good customers" depending on batch size the flavor can be very different jar to jar , as opposed to the extracted.

GG
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Top