Missing queens
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Thread: Missing queens

  1. #1
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    Default Missing queens

    I was wondering if anyone have ever had problems with breeder not resending queens because they were missing from post office.This guy refunded postage but told me I am out of luck with queens

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  3. #2
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    Apr 2020
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    Columbia, Maryland, USA
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    Default Re: Missing queens

    Thats definitely a problem, I would think that breeder would work with you on that, either a refund or sending you a new one. I would not do business with that breeder again.
    USDA Hardiness Zone 7A, Hobbyist, First Hives in 2017

  4. #3
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    Jun 2012
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    munster indiana
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    Default

    I ordered 5 and guy is telling me I am out of luck.

  5. #4
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    Jun 2019
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    Southwest Michigan
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    Default Re: Missing queens

    I would also make his name known to others.

  6. #5
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    munster indiana
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    Lloyd St bees in Wisconsin
    This guy scammed me out of 5 queens.Buyer beware.i am out 200.00 bucks

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
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    Dane County, WI, USA
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    Default Re: Missing queens

    It this the website?
    https://www.lloydstbees.com/

    I may know the guy (and he, who I know, is a good guy, IMO).
    I have bought from him.

    But really, what is the proper course of action if one to send 5 queens and then the receiver never receives them through the no-fault of the sender (especially if the "sent" receipts are available)?
    Should there be some insurance involved?
    Who eats the risk?

    Also, 5 queens for $200 means $40/queen.
    Well, he retails for $35 (what I paid).
    Also, see this - https://www.lloydstbees.com/prices

    What kind of queens did you buy if to pay $200 for 5?
    Kinda pricey; he does not normally charge that.
    Last edited by GregV; 08-05-2020 at 10:34 PM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  8. #7
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    Campbell River, BC, CA
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    Default Re: Missing queens

    Quote Originally Posted by mjl328 View Post
    I was wondering if anyone have ever had problems with breeder not resending queens because they were missing from post office.This guy refunded postage but told me I am out of luck with queens
    I wouldn't blame the queen breeder for a failure to deliver by the post office. I've been getting monthly remittances by mail from an american client for more than 20 years. They are mailed on the 2nd typically and usually arrive between the 10th and 13 of the month. Since the powers that be started gutting the US Post office that's changed. The last one sent left an office in the eastern us postmarked July 02, arrived here on Aug 05.

    I could go on and on about this, but that would devolve into politics. I will say, fella trying to make some bucks producing queens is now hamstrung by politics of the post office, you are pointing the finger at the wrong place.

  9. #8
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    Sep 2018
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    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
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    1,709

    Default Re: Missing queens

    Quote Originally Posted by grozzie2 View Post
    I wouldn't blame the queen breeder for a failure to deliver by the post office. I've been getting monthly remittances by mail from an american client for more than 20 years. They are mailed on the 2nd typically and usually arrive between the 10th and 13 of the month. Since the powers that be started gutting the US Post office that's changed. The last one sent left an office in the eastern us postmarked July 02, arrived here on Aug 05.

    I could go on and on about this, but that would devolve into politics. I will say, fella trying to make some bucks producing queens is now hamstrung by politics of the post office, you are pointing the finger at the wrong place.
    +1

    the breeder put them in the "mail" at his end alive and with proper intent. I have seen the Postal folks leave queens in the mail box on Very hot days.
    Even when it says live bees all over the package. Shipping is hit and miss now for sure. Try to find queens close enough to drive over and pick them up.
    If that is not an option try UPS or FED Ex

    last couple I did were Hold for pick up at the USPS, they call at 8-9 am time frame when they come off the truck, i drive there , they are in hives by Noon.

    do watch the tracking every hour or so online to get a better idea of when you need to engage.

    GG

  10. #9
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    Aug 2014
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    Default Re: Missing queens

    Different countries, different systems - but over here the onus is upon the seller to demonstrate delivery was effected - i.e. that the correct signature was obtained by the Post Office. Otherwise the seller must refund the purchaser and then make a claim against the Post Office, as it was the seller who entered into a contract with the Post Office to deliver the goods - even if the purchaser paid for that delivery. If the Post Office can't prove they fulfilled the contract, then they lose out - not the seller, nor the purchaser.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  11. #10
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    Jan 2020
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    Canandaigua, New York, USA
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    Default

    Don't most breeders stay away from the post office for this very reason?

  12. #11
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    Rutland County, Vermont,USA
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    Default Re: Missing queens

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    Different countries, different systems - but over here the onus is upon the seller to demonstrate delivery was effected - i.e. that the correct signature was obtained by the Post Office. Otherwise the seller must refund the purchaser and then make a claim against the Post Office, as it was the seller who entered into a contract with the Post Office to deliver the goods - even if the purchaser paid for that delivery. If the Post Office can't prove they fulfilled the contract, then they lose out - not the seller, nor the purchaser.
    LJ
    I believe this is how the law works here too but may vary by state. The law may be one thing but the norm in the practice may be another. J

  13. #12
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    Default Re: Missing queens

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    Different countries, different systems - but over here the onus is upon the seller to demonstrate delivery was effected - i.e. that the correct signature was obtained by the Post Office.
    Guess that would depend on what level of service was paid for wouldn't it ? I can ship a letter off for a buck, no confirmation of delivery or timelines. I can spend 10 bucks, then it will have tracking information. I can spend 25, then it'll have tracking and guarantees on deliver tomorrow. I can add insurance on top of that by paying a portion of the declared value. But shipping queens would be an exception, our post office will not insure live critters.

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Missing queens

    For sure the Post Office has different levels of service - which involve different scales of payment and different levels of compensation.

    But what I was hoping to convey is that proof of posting is not the same as proof of delivery, and that at each stage of the transaction a contract is entered into. Imo, it's essential to focus on who enters into a contract with whom - for that determines who is responsible for what.

    I don't have a dog in this particular fight, but I find it somewhat odd that the seller has refunded postal charges (and by doing so is accepting that delivery has not taken place) and yet refuses to refund for the goods which were not supplied as a result of the non-delivery. I assume that the contract entered into was to supply (i.e. to deliver into the purchaser's control) five live queens which were fit for purpose, and not just to post five queens in the hope that they would eventually turn up. The form of that particular contract is key.

    This is much easier to grasp in cases where much larger deliveries are involved - say, with a bulk cargo delivered by ship. The contract may specify that the goods are to be delivered onto a particular quayside - which can be challenging in some third world countries where cargo handling facilities can be primitive. But arriving at the port is not fulfilling the contract - the goods must be placed (undamaged) onto the quayside itself. Only then has the contract been fulfilled, with control (and responsibility) then passing from the carrier to the customer.

    It's exactly the same with Ebay - even if the seller has proof of posting, if delivery has not been effected, then the purchaser is refunded at the expense of the seller.

    On a personal level, of course I have sympathy for the seller here, as this screw-up is not of his making, and no doubt he did the best he could to ensure things went smoothly. But I have even more sympathy for the purchaser, who - quite rightly in my opinion - feels 'screwed-over'. I would too, in his place.

    At the moment we have a 'lose-lose' situation: the purchaser is out of pocket (and out of queens), and the reputation of the seller has taken a hit.
    But the 'guilty party' here is the Post Office, and it is they who should be bearing the financial loss - not the purchaser.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    munster indiana
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    Default

    It’s strange because I ordered queens delivered by post office and no problem a last weeks again from different breeder and had no problems.I have also have queen’s order from again other breeder that showed up dead and breeder had no problems sending more.I only had to pay for postage again.This guy told me that I am out of luck and will no return calls.I am hoping nobody else gets screwed.Again Buyer beware of getting queens from him.Llyods bees in Wisconsin.

  16. #15
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    Colorado Springs, CO United States
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    Default Re: Missing queens

    Quote Originally Posted by mjl328 View Post
    I was wondering if anyone have ever had problems with breeder not resending queens because they were missing from post office.This guy refunded postage but told me I am out of luck with queens
    No tracking number? Most breeders purchase insurance through the shipping company, which you then can file a claim through.
    Please excuse me, I am now free to go manage & treat ;)
    my ladies the best way I know how.

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