Converting 1:1 to 2:1 formula
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  1. #1
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    Default Converting 1:1 to 2:1 formula

    I have tried to search for this but can't locate a thread.

    What is the formula to use if you are converting some previously mixed 1:1 syrup to 2:1? For example, assume you have 10 cups of 1:1 already made, something tells me it's not as easy as adding 5 cups of sugar to that pre-existing mixture.

    Any help is appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Kevin

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Converting 1:1 to 2:1 formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinf View Post
    I have tried to search for this but can't locate a thread.

    What is the formula to use if you are converting some previously mixed 1:1 syrup to 2:1? For example, assume you have 10 cups of 1:1 already made, something tells me it's not as easy as adding 5 cups of sugar to that pre-existing mixture.

    Any help is appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Kevin

    Being a small scale (like yourself), I operate by standard 4lb grocery store sugar bags.

    This makes 2:1 mix trivial.
    Mix one 4lb bag with one quart of water - done (you got yourself 2:1 mix).

    This also makes 1:1 mix trivial.
    Mix one 4lb bag with two quart of water - done (you got yourself 1:1 mix).

    For larger amounts - multiply quantities proportionally.

    Back to your question - I would just keep adding sugar incrementally and stir until dissolved.
    Then maybe add more.
    In fact, just feeding 1:1 as it is - a total non-issue (remember, today is July 31st and still a deep summer yet).
    You can feed them 1.5:1, 1.7:1, 1.35:1, 1.98:1, .......... - it does not matter what you feed.
    Unsure why the hang-up.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  4. #3
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    Default Re: Converting 1:1 to 2:1 formula

    So if I had the 1:1 sitting in my refrigerator but wanted to make it 2:1, I would simply add another 4lb bag of sugar to my already existing 1:1 to make it so?

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Converting 1:1 to 2:1 formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinf View Post
    So if I had the 1:1 sitting in my refrigerator but wanted to make it 2:1, I would simply add another 4lb bag of sugar to my already existing 1:1 to make it so?
    It depends on exact quantity of your 1:1 now - to figure out if 4lb is what you need.
    But sugar is cheap and water is even cheaper (to be concerned with the lab precision).


    Add 2 pounds; stir; observe.
    Add 1 more pound; stir; observe.
    Pretty soon it will be close enough.
    Don't hang up on some perfect 2:1 proportion - it is irrelevant (it is just after reaching ~2:1, sugar will not dissolve much more).

    Thick sugar syrup is only relevant when you need to get them to quickly put up weight in very late summer/early fall.
    In cooler weather it is harder to dry sugar syrup - hence we want it as dry as possible (i.e. as thick as possible).
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Converting 1:1 to 2:1 formula

    Kevin - you know how to make-up 1:1 - 'cause you've already made some. So - take the same amount of sugar that you used last time, and add it - not to water - but to the 1:1 syrup. Hey presto - 2:1.

    But - as Greg has already said - it really doesn't matter. Just add sugar until no more will dissolve, and call it a day. Plenty good enough. Most nectars (the real stuff) are unbelievably weak compared with the sugar syrups which beekeepers give.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Converting 1:1 to 2:1 formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinf View Post

    What is the formula to use if you are converting some previously mixed 1:1 syrup to 2:1?

    Kevin
    A gallon of 1:1 Sugar syrup is 5.15 lb sugar and 5.15 lb water. So to convert 1 gallon of 1:1 syrup to 2:1 syrup you will add 5.15 lb sugar. To convert X gallons of 1:1 syrup to 2:1 syrup you will add 5.15X lb of sugar. If you want to use any other unit, for example fl oz, first convert to gallons and use the formula.
    Last edited by WillH; 07-31-2020 at 03:42 PM. Reason: missed gallons at the beginning
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  8. #7
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    Default Re: Converting 1:1 to 2:1 formula

    In fact, this 2:1 thing is a purely artificial approximation - it is driven by the point when no more sugar can be dissolved.
    In some hard waters, ~1.8:1 - is the best you can do.
    If you use pure distilled water - maybe can achieve 2.2:1 or something close.
    "2:1" is just a quick hand name for a generic heavy syrup.

    If targeting heavy syrup - you basically just dump as much sugar as you can dissolved - 3:1 would be great if you could somehow magically do it while having 100% solubility (not really possible in the kitchen). Consider that the ready honey is about 4:1 (carbs to water).
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Converting 1:1 to 2:1 formula

    I know that I should not boil the existing 1:1 but is it safe to heat it up a bit to help dissolve whatever I can get dissolved?

    Just to be clear - as I understand the formula, if I have 4 cups of 1:1, I add 4 cups of sugar and this will make 2:1?

    Thanks, again, to you all.

    Kevin

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Converting 1:1 to 2:1 formula

    The longer you keep the heat on a sugar solution the more HMF (hydroxymethylfurfural) you create. Take the advice above about not targeting a fully saturated solution. The higher sugar one is more resistant to black mold but a splash of javex takes care of that and I have not heard any negative issues for the bees.
    Frank

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Converting 1:1 to 2:1 formula

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevinf View Post
    I know that I should not boil the existing 1:1 but is it safe to heat it up a bit to help dissolve whatever I can get dissolved?

    Just to be clear - as I understand the formula, if I have 4 cups of 1:1, I add 4 cups of sugar and this will make 2:1?

    Thanks, again, to you all.

    Kevin
    No! To get four cups of 1:1 you would have had to use more than 2 cups of each. 2 cups of each would only give you a little more than 3 cups volume of mixture. If you want to be accurate you have to use units of weight.

    The 4 cups of mix you have would consist of something slightly more than 2 cups of sugar with the water; if you want to make it twice as strong add approx 2 cups of sugar to it.
    Frank

  12. #11
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    Default Re: Converting 1:1 to 2:1 formula

    Weigh it.

    1 to 1 is one pound water to 1 pound sugar. So if your 1 to 1 mix weighs say, 4 pounds, it has 2 pounds of sugar, 2 pounds of water. So to make it 2 to 1 you would add another 2 pounds sugar.

    The mix will then have 2 pounds of water and 4 pounds of sugar. IE, 2 to 1.

    So the formula is weigh the 1 to 1 mix. Divide total weight by 2, and add that much sugar.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  13. #12
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    Default Re: Converting 1:1 to 2:1 formula

    As others have said, to convert already mixed 1:1 to 2:1 just double the weight of the sugar you initially added. If you have already used part of the syrup then just estimate how much you used and adjust it accordingly. If you already used 1/2 of it and you initially mixed a 4 lb bag, then now assume your mix has 2 lbs of sugar in it and you need 2 lbs more. Add the sugar gradually and if you reach a point where you are having trouble getting it to dissolve then stop. This isn't something that you need to get exact. If you end up making 5:3 then the bees will still gladly take it and use it. Make it easy on yourself.

    When mixing I use the recipe that is printed on every sugar bag. You just have to know how to read it. Plus it helps to know that 1 kilogram is by definition the weight of one liter of water. Right on the bottom of a 4lb grocery store sized bag it says the net weight is 1.8 kilograms. That means 1:1 needs 1.8 liters of water, and 2:1 needs .9 liters of water. No conversion, no math except halving it for 2:1. And there is nothing to weigh, no need for a scale. Every pitcher is marked in both liters and quarts and all you all buy soda in liter and 2 liter bottles, so you can do this and it's super easy for any size bag of sugar.
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