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  1. #41
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jonsl View Post
    The two articles you reference are not about covid-19. The first is about influenza. Though the article may have some general applicability to covid-19 it is about another class of viruses. The second article is about SARS. Another corona virus that is related to covid-19. The study was also conducted in 2005. I don't think that a statement that hydroxychloroquine is efficacious against covid-19 can be derived from this. The study also mentions chloroquine not hydorxychlorquine. I don't know the difference in these compounds and whether it would change effectiveness. The study was also conducted 15 years ago. Don't you think they may have additional info since then?
    Yep, I used the quotes somewhat out of line. My bad. My point linking the article on flu was that many viruses change over time and we don't yet know what covid-19 will do.

    Hydroxycloroquine sulfate is a safer version of the earlier drug cloroquine. This did show promise in treating SARS type viruses. Covid-19 IS a SARS type virus (SARS-coV-2).

    What I was trying to point out is that those opposed to the use of hydroxychloroquine never mentioned in their studies testing the protocol of using it with zinc. What I have heard is that those taking it along with zinc have a much lower death rate.

    https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs...ovid-19-deaths

    "Meanwhile, a study in the Journal of the American Medical Association on Monday found that treating patients only with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, or both did not reduce hospital deaths." This became the cherry picked line the left leaning democrats and press jumped on to discredit the use of hydroxychloroquine. It is dishonest to omit that in combination with zinc there is promise. Putting politics ahead of saving lives is either insane or evil.

    Another point is that time is critical and the sooner a patient gets on the protocol the better their outcome. I have 3 RN's in my family and 2 nephews who are MD's. They get tested 2 times per week. I have been tested once after experiencing some strange flu like symptoms. I am a high risk category person as far as my lungs. I know what all of us would choose for treatment if we come down with the Covid-19 virus.

    My parent company is working with another company which is testing a high tech for Covid-19 sanitation product. It is currently deployed in the white house and has been used in the international space station. Test results show that it will kill viruses and bacteria on surfaces for 70-90 days with 1 application. It is FDA approved and is food safe. The testing will take more time before it is certified specifically for Covid-19, but it is approved for other SARS type viruses.

    Meanwhile wear your mask in public and don't touch your face until after carefully washing and hand sanitation.

    My brother had the virus already. He is a recluse and doesn't have much contact with family members in general. None of us know why. He allegedly recovered fine.

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  3. #42
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    I stand with Kamon on this. I am out in the country and masks are worn by maybe 50% of the people. I wear a mask in stores that have their own little version of the Gestapo minding the door, but typically would be considered selfish by some. Oh well. I do not have it, no-one I know has it, and the county I live in has had only a few positive cases. Many of the masks I do see being worn are being done so improperly anyway, leaving the nose fully exposed or worse. Don't even get me started on the effectiveness of many of the home-made face coverings so many are hiding behind and touting their "holier than thou attitudes". They are no more protected than I am and just as likely to spread the disease if they had it. Here's a hint, if your mask is made out of spandex, it ain't doin' nuttin. Practice social distancing, wash your hands often, avoid large crowds when able, and get on with your life.

    The hydroxychloroquine/zinc treatment is to help your body fight off an exposure to the Covid-19 virus, not treat it if you already have symptoms as far as I know. Many of the nurses working the Covid units in Richmond are quietly taking this combination to help prevent catching it in the first place.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  4. #43
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    https://news.yahoo.com/vietnam-mirac...030830486.html

    Scientists in Asia are investigating whether countries with a frequent circulation of Sars-like viruses may have higher levels of generalised immunity among the population Ė a theory that, if proven, could help health authorities to manage the current Covid-19 pandemic.
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  5. #44
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    JWPALMER - "I stand with Kamon on this." That's nice. Another vote for Darwinism; divide and conquer. Let Darwinism rule life unabated - do we all agree? I am sure the local, socially isolated native tribes appreciated the small pox that was introduced by a few visiting fishermen from Europe. Not many survived especially when biological warfare was wage upon them by colonist. In this current world if you are isolated long enough you will become easy prey.

    I never realized the difficulty in getting commitment from all the people for a common cause ( Lincoln did, I think). It also took me a long time to understand the social process called "conditioning". Whether in the country (tribal effects) or in the cities (gangs), clibs or hive colonies. It is hard to overcome local dogma and conditioning. No wonder the government has such a hard time getting anything done - united we are not, selfish we are, deductive reasoning is wanting.

    I think my little state has done well with some strong leadership provided by the governor. Only a 1000+ dead while RI managed its' medical load by reacting early. Unfortunately, this is a guess, our dropping infection rate has doubled and rising since our beaches opened and "out-of - staters" arrived, city people escaped from the city. I don't just wear a cloth mask, I wear an ugly, filtration rated mask that protects me and limits my "spreading zone", when engaging with other people. I am also giving up on seeing my kids and grandkids for what I estimate to be one year. It is obvious to me what our problem is - instant gratification, short term goals coupled with selfishness - avoiding the hard work, sacrificing. I believe the objective is to buy time so the medical professionals and researchers can develop manageable solutions and mitigate the problem. Then again we could just let Darwinism do its' job - stop treating your honey bees.

  6. #45
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    Trin - The operative wording in your logic -"What I have heard" . As you have said, don't believe everything you have heard.

  7. #46
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trin View Post
    Yep, I used the quotes somewhat out of line. My bad. My point linking the article on flu was that many viruses change over time and we don't yet know what covid-19 will do.

    Hydroxycloroquine sulfate is a safer version of the earlier drug cloroquine. This did show promise in treating SARS type viruses. Covid-19 IS a SARS type virus (SARS-coV-2).

    What I was trying to point out is that those opposed to the use of hydroxychloroquine never mentioned in their studies testing the protocol of using it with zinc. What I have heard is that those taking it along with zinc have a much lower death rate.

    https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs...ovid-19-deaths

    "Meanwhile, a study in the Journal of the American Medical Association on Monday found that treating patients only with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, or both did not reduce hospital deaths." This became the cherry picked line the left leaning democrats and press jumped on to discredit the use of hydroxychloroquine. It is dishonest to omit that in combination with zinc there is promise. Putting politics ahead of saving lives is either insane or evil.

    Another point is that time is critical and the sooner a patient gets on the protocol the better their outcome. I have 3 RN's in my family and 2 nephews who are MD's. They get tested 2 times per week. I have been tested once after experiencing some strange flu like symptoms. I am a high risk category person as far as my lungs. I know what all of us would choose for treatment if we come down with the Covid-19 virus.

    My parent company is working with another company which is testing a high tech for Covid-19 sanitation product. It is currently deployed in the white house and has been used in the international space station. Test results show that it will kill viruses and bacteria on surfaces for 70-90 days with 1 application. It is FDA approved and is food safe. The testing will take more time before it is certified specifically for Covid-19, but it is approved for other SARS type viruses.

    Meanwhile wear your mask in public and don't touch your face until after carefully washing and hand sanitation.

    My brother had the virus already. He is a recluse and doesn't have much contact with family members in general. None of us know why. He allegedly recovered fine.
    The study you highlight measured outcome of hydroxychloroquine in conjunction with zinc and azithromycin. This was not a controlled study just observational. Don't you think that it could be the zinc and azithromycin that were the real reason for improvement. There is not way of knowing without a controlled study.

    Here is a reprint of the study which notes that it is nor peered reviewed. Also they state: "this is a retrospective observational study and therefore not a clinical trial".

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....02.20080036v1

    The problem is that a lot of people are making medical recommendations without the proper studies. Another problem is that this drug is used for other medical conditions. All the hoopla about it has caused a shortage for those who need it and has tripled its price to them.

  8. #47
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    I stand with Kamon on this. I am out in the country and masks are worn by maybe 50% of the people. I wear a mask in stores that have their own little version of the Gestapo minding the door, but typically would be considered selfish by some. Oh well. I do not have it, no-one I know has it, and the county I live in has had only a few positive cases. Many of the masks I do see being worn are being done so improperly anyway, leaving the nose fully exposed or worse. Don't even get me started on the effectiveness of many of the home-made face coverings so many are hiding behind and touting their "holier than thou attitudes". They are no more protected than I am and just as likely to spread the disease if they had it. Here's a hint, if your mask is made out of spandex, it ain't doin' nuttin. Practice social distancing, wash your hands often, avoid large crowds when able, and get on with your life.

    The hydroxychloroquine/zinc treatment is to help your body fight off an exposure to the Covid-19 virus, not treat it if you already have symptoms as far as I know. Many of the nurses working the Covid units in Richmond are quietly taking this combination to help prevent catching it in the first place.
    I have to agree here too.....Kamon said very eloquently. He's my kind of guy.

    I, sort of, quit reading this thread because of all the "sheep" who seem to follow this "political pandemic" down the road to destruction. The media hates to let any anti-Trump agenda go without trumpeting it to the eager masses.....they do love it. Many people seem to think if they beat CV19, they will live forever.....WRONG!

  9. #48
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    bah
    It is hard to design a safety net that some will not use as a hammock.

  10. #49
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Holcombe View Post
    Trin - The operative wording in your logic -"What I have heard" . As you have said, don't believe everything you have heard.
    Yah, that is not condescending. Insulting others is just a way of saying "I'm better informed, and everyone who disagrees is wrong."

    Everyone has a point of view that is formed by what they agree with. You are no exception. The only "common cause" we can probably agree on it that the pandemic is real and we don't like it. How it started, where it is going matters, and none of us know. Being the product of a particular type of education matters. What is "obvious" to you, is from your experience. I don't share the same experience, therefore I see things from a different perspective.

    I use the phrase "what I have heard" as a colloquialism for what I have read, heard, and agreed with from my own knowledge and experience. Clearly your values are different from my own. Attacking something someone says because of how they say it, irrespective of potential truth in what they are saying just diminishes potential fruitful dialogue.

    "JWPALMER - "I stand with Kamon on this." That's nice. Another vote for Darwinism; divide and conquer. Let Darwinism rule life unabated - do we all agree? I am sure the local, socially isolated native tribes appreciated the small pox that was introduced by a few visiting fishermen from Europe. Not many survived especially when biological warfare was wage upon them by colonist"

    I highly doubt the colonists intended to "wage biological warfare" I am not sure the Chinese fall into the same category. They were aware of the problem and chose not to inform the rest of the world. The lesson I choose to take from this springs from the idea that doing business with an evil totalitarian country is a bad idea. In this case it was greed on by both of our political parties who saw cheap labor as a good thing. All it has done is make wealthy people more wealthy at the expense of millions of American jobs and the destruction of many local economies. I think it proper to lay the blame for the pandemic at the feet of the globalist economy wealthy. Ultimately, I think the problem is too much power in the hands of too few. Whether this is in an unbridled capitalist system, or a socialist, or communist, it is not good for the majority. I don't think we need to change our system of government, I think we need to return to it in a form much more like the original.

  11. #50
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    Forgive us for not taking you conspiracy theorists seriously. Back to bees.

  12. #51
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    I highly doubt the colonists intended to "wage biological warfare" . You would be entirely wrong. Did they also do it inadvertently, yes.

    I have nothing against a good staunch Republican, voted for a few. I just do not see many right now. Dems without a coherent opposition scares me.
    It is hard to design a safety net that some will not use as a hammock.

  13. #52
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    I do believe the Chinese are guilty of not wanting to look bad and hid the outbreak at first. Not wanting to look bad and hiding the truth is not a unique Chinese trait.

    If you make an error in the first inning and your team looses 15 to 0, did the error cause the 15 runs. Time to take responsibility for a few innings played here.

    That it started in China is more speculation. Did it take root there? Well it became visible there. The Chinese are as likely a victim of world travel as anyone else. Chinese are traveling world wide and returning home. There were healthy adults developing sudden "pneumonia" and dying in 3-4 days locally in early January. Covid? Who knows. China connection? Don't believe so.
    Last edited by Saltybee; 08-02-2020 at 03:46 PM. Reason: Spell
    It is hard to design a safety net that some will not use as a hammock.

  14. #53
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    Here is the company that the conspiracy theorists keep: Dr. Stella Immanuel. The latest retweet from Trump to support hydroxychloroquine is from her. She has previously said that people are being treated with alien DNA, that the government at the highest levels in being run by a race call reptilians and that some medical problems are caused by people having sex with demons. It is embarrassing that the president of the United States is pushing this kind of "expert".

  15. #54
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    Here we go again, if you cannot refute the message destroy the messenger. Lot of people trooping theit colors here. The fact remains that the majority of the population do not trust their government which means the government agencies the FBI is above the law the DOJ has nothing to do with justice the IRS is used to punish organizations that oppose the party line NSA, CIA all in the same boat. It is said give control of the Sahara desert to this government and there will shortly be a shortage of sand. I was discussing with a neif=ghbor about what an idiot out representitve was to which she replied " at least he helped me get a copy of my birth certificate" So If you need to get help from your representitve ( our equivulant to an MP OT) our civivil service the servants of the people is in a hell of a state in my opinion. One of the doctors on the Corona virus task force proclaimed that she cannot believe anything that comes out of the Center for Disease Control so what do you guys expect as some of us are not sheep.

  16. #55
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    Here we go again, if you cannot refute the message destroy the messenger. Lot of people trooping theit colors here. The fact remains that the majority of the population do not trust their government which means the government agencies the FBI is above the law the DOJ has nothing to do with justice the IRS is used to punish organizations that oppose the party line NSA, CIA all in the same boat. It is said give control of the Sahara desert to this government and there will shortly be a shortage of sand. I was discussing with a neif=ghbor about what an idiot out representitve was to which she replied " at least he helped me get a copy of my birth certificate" So If you need to get help from your representitve ( our equivulant to an MP OT) our civivil service the servants of the people is in a hell of a state in my opinion. One of the doctors on the Corona virus task force proclaimed that she cannot believe anything that comes out of the Center for Disease Control so what do you guys expect as some of us are not sheep.
    Which doctor and show me the quote.

  17. #56
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    Baaah , Baah , Tim KS, better than being a lemming. I buried Isabella last Fall. She was a really old ewe. Lasted way beyond the normal life expectancy. Laid down just before sunset, watched it a bit and past away.

    Who should I believe Trump and his cohorts or a skilled researcher with a proven history and current facts. Trump's BS or my son-in-law's advice who is Doctor?

  18. #57
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    Saltybee - "I highly doubt the colonists...." : My embedded memory says "....blankets, Benedict Arnold or some other Colonel. The first contact was likely unintentional and said by Philbrick to be related to a shipwreck, Portugese or French cod fisherman, on Cape Cod. Massasoit paraded them around to the various villages he ruled, infections and deaths resulted. He was thus greatly weakened by the plague. He used or allowed Plymouth Colony as an ally as a show strength to ward off other tribes. Of course my memory could be wrong or history twisted.

  19. #58
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    My memory was of blankets used to finish off the plains Natives. Not much different than paying more for the scalps of native women and children than braves during King Philips War. Slaughter of Bison to starve them out.
    It is hard to design a safety net that some will not use as a hammock.

  20. #59
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim KS View Post
    I have to agree here too.....Kamon said very eloquently. He's my kind of guy.

    I, sort of, quit reading this thread because of all the "sheep" who seem to follow this "political pandemic" down the road to destruction. The media hates to let any anti-Trump agenda go without trumpeting it to the eager masses.....they do love it. Many people seem to think if they beat CV19, they will live forever.....WRONG!
    Proverbs 16:24

  21. #60
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    Default Re: The Covid 19 Thread

    I agree with J.W on this regarding masks; most of them donít work very well. Thinking along this line of fabric masks, think of all the fabric the odor of a fart penetrates (a legit comparison even though I still get a good laugh from someone else slipping one out )
    Proverbs 16:24

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