This is how community mating yard looks like - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: This is how community mating yard looks like

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    price per nuc/queen plased on site to mate out

    isolation from outher drone sources
    I got responses back from the mating site provider.
    Last edited by GregV; 07-23-2020 at 03:29 PM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: This is how community mating yard looks like

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    bad plan, I don't think any reasonable operator would alow it, no easy way to inspect for drones
    Sure; good point.
    Those see-through gizmos are ideal.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  4. #23
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    Default Re: This is how community mating yard looks like

    not what they charge (witch would be fun to know), what do you think is a fair price
    "oh well, let us stick to science. let them have their beliefs and intuitions!" -Medhat Nasr

  5. #24
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    Default Re: This is how community mating yard looks like

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    not what they charge (witch would be fun to know), what do you think is a fair price
    I would think this should be a ratio of mated queen for sale (and the bulk factor; and the risk of failure factor).

    So, say I bought a desired queen this year for $35.

    Getting a similar queen by mating my own virgin to those desired drones should ideally approach to 50% of that same genetic value at max (since the virgin is of my own origin).
    So, $35*0.5 ~ $17.5
    Now add the bulk factor...
    So, maybe mate 5 queens for $50-60 at the site of the provider where I got $35 mated queen.
    If your mated queen sells for $200, then your mating services will be higher, I imagine (presuming some magic better bee).
    Unsure who eats the cost of the failed mating cases (50/50?)
    Gotta start somewhere.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  6. #25
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    Default Re: This is how community mating yard looks like

    you two make things to complicated, I did the above with ankle byters, set up a totally isolated yard, two in fact, ordered in original queens from multiple sources for people to buy, made both yards available to mate q ueens from the Ankle byters for free. I was the only one that brought in queen cells to mate with the drones, after two years shut the yards down. Had an isolation yard for 20 years, worked out fine for my own queens, ended up with what I wanted in my queens, worked fine for me, easier for people to get them earlier from the south. nice to discuss but no one is going to do it here. bad keyboard so typing difficult.
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  7. #26
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    Default Re: This is how community mating yard looks like

    Quote Originally Posted by wildbranch2007 View Post
    you two make things to complicated, I did the above with ankle byters, set up a totally isolated yard, two in fact, ordered in original queens from multiple sources for people to buy, made both yards available to mate q ueens from the Ankle byters for free. I was the only one that brought in queen cells to mate with the drones, after two years shut the yards down. Had an isolation yard for 20 years, worked out fine for my own queens, ended up with what I wanted in my queens, worked fine for me, easier for people to get them earlier from the south. nice to discuss but no one is going to do it here. bad keyboard so typing difficult.
    And did you offer your services to anyone?

    easier for people to get them earlier from the south.
    What MSL referred to as "I want that package with XYZ queen in it".
    Well, true for the most suburban consumers.

    But if you already sell queens and claim you are, somehow, different from the other guy - it makes sense to offer mating services (granted the isolation is available).
    Little overhead is involved.

    If you are unable to claim that you are different - why do you sell queens and why should people buy from you?

    PS: the questions are rhetorical, of course - not to you, wildbranch;
    Last edited by GregV; 07-23-2020 at 02:45 PM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  8. #27
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    Default Re: This is how community mating yard looks like

    The responses from the mating site operator.

    Their pricing - ~$3.5 USD per a mating slot (equivalent of 100 Grivnas - this is Western Ukraine, keep in mind).
    I googled the mated queen prices for Ukraine - 100 to 300 Grivnas (~$3.5-11.5USD).

    So a mating slot indeed runs at ~50% of the average cost of mated queen, just like I proposed.
    Though this particular provider sells his queen material pretty high.
    So then his mating fee is proportional pretty low.

    To my question about possible matings outside of the mating zone (I auto-translated and did few corrections):
    Most sources write complete nonsense. A lot of information is copied from old, unverified sources. With a good, saturated drone background, the queen bee does not have time to fly far, it is better to say this - the drones do not allow her to fly far and inseminate her within the mating yard, proof of this is visual observation: swarms of drones within the mating yard, queens very quickly return to their nucs within from half a minute to one minute with a train of drones, and of course dead drones on the roofs of the hives, which die after copulating with the queen bee in the air and fall down. Of course, in the wild, everything is different, the queen can fly away under the influence of instinct in search of fresh blood, but the drone can fly much further, migrating from apiary to apiary, any family takes it in the spring and summer period. We achieve controlled pairing thanks to good insulation, namely: location altitude - over 1000m above sea level and distance from humans - the first and only settlement is 14 km. from the mating yard is on the other side of the mountain "Syvulya" and the ridge "Gorgan".
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  9. #28
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    Default Re: This is how community mating yard looks like

    my thoughts were the same as yours at 1/2 ...nice to know I wan't off base

    But if you already sell queens and claim you are, somehow, different from the other guy - it makes sense to offer mating services (granted the isolation is available).
    Little overhead is involved.
    While it sounds good, the headache of dealing with retail at this level and the extra needed security with a whole bunch of people now knowing were a bunch of nucs are out in the middle of no were make is feel like a PITA.. full time job for some one at least... added over head..
    were as a queen producer you can work your bees by your schedule...

    I think this only works if people want to matain something... ie they like Russian bees so they want to breed the daughters of their bought queens to Russian drones ... but at that point the market isn't there... to many other people wanting too many different things.. we don't have that "native" status to galvanize people in to action...

    If you have a pedigree and all, thats one thing, but I see no reason to send "mutts" to such a yard...
    Why not bring in super bee virgins at the same price and mate them localy? Or better yet 48 hour cells at 1/3 the price
    You still get the 50/50 mix local/super bees but you have the benefit of them sending out pure super bee drones and you don't have to transport bolth ways

    as wildbranch notes, people just don't go for it... not in our culture
    "oh well, let us stick to science. let them have their beliefs and intuitions!" -Medhat Nasr

  10. #29
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    Default Re: This is how community mating yard looks like

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    my thoughts were the same as yours at 1/2 ...nice to know I wan't off base
    .......
    they like Russian bees so they want to breed the daughters of their bought queens to Russian drones ..
    .......
    as wildbranch notes, people just don't go for it... not in our culture
    If that "secluded area" is your own property back in woods - may not be a full time security job.
    "NO trespassing - private property" still works in the USA, I would hope.
    Of course, knowing what is possible in CA stealing the bees, loading up a bunch of mini-nucs is a trivial job indeed.
    A retired grandpa with a shot gun maybe needed.

    Now, if you actually live on your "secluded property" that is pretty much ideal.

    Maybe GG can setup something in his MI UP outback get away.
    In that building, with the nucs lined up on some behind the grill shelf - if anything, I'd be worried about bears first.
    Be so very cool!
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  11. #30
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    Default

    I like to watch German bee keeping on you tube and the government provides mating stations to its bee keepers. I assume that it's free because they are trying to maintain a line of Buckfast that's varroa resistant.

  12. #31
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    Default Re: This is how community mating yard looks like

    nope, mostly carnys
    "oh well, let us stick to science. let them have their beliefs and intuitions!" -Medhat Nasr

  13. #32
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    Default Re: This is how community mating yard looks like

    Actually, what is to prevent our own GWW from saying:

    Hey, bring your mini nucs to my place and have them mate here!
    $10 per a mini, GWW will watch after them until they are done mating and picked back up.
    Sitting right in the back yard, that is plenty security as for me.
    Easy pocket money for GWW.

    Secluded or not, the place clearly has resistance present and that is sufficient in itself to try to capture some of it.
    This is not necessarily about "pure breed mating"; this is about capturing some of the genetic slice present at the location.

    Same for Leo Sharashkin with his "magic bees", or square_peg or .....
    ........any John Dow who just happens to live in such a location but is not in bee/queen selling business.
    Renting spots for mating nucs should be easy enough proposition.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  14. #33
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    Default Re: This is how community mating yard looks like

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    And did you offer your services to anyone?



    But if you already sell queens and claim you are, somehow, different from the other guy - it makes sense to offer mating services (granted the isolation is available).
    Little overhead is involved.

    If you are unable to claim that you are different - why do you sell queens and why should people buy from you?

    PS: the questions are rhetorical, of course - not to you, wildbranch;
    as I said in the post
    ordered in original queens from multiple sources for people to buy
    we ordered in 60 that people bought, I set up the yards for the club. The AB's were not what they claimed, although the ones that were mixed it with my queens did produce as much honey as mine. It was a project for the club, I don't sell queens, give some away but don't sell
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  15. #34
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    Default Re: This is how community mating yard looks like

    Sounds like a great idea, even to this small time hobbyist. I live in a fairly isolated small town with only 4 other hobbyists that I am aware of. I have floated similar ideas about all using local queens ,all treating (sorry tf people) all using robber screens. No interest. It's not that they are opposed, they don't perceive the value. J

  16. #35
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    Default Re: This is how community mating yard looks like

    Quote Originally Posted by Fivej View Post
    No interest. It's not that they are opposed, they don't perceive the value. J
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  17. #36
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    Default Re: This is how community mating yard looks like

    right the smaller beeks are not clamoring for a "mating" yard.
    if there is distance then there also is the 2 trips.

    I think you almost need to build the mating yard to mate and sell your queens "the cake", and offer others to mate there "the frosting".

    GG

  18. #37
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    Default Re: This is how community mating yard looks like

    maybe he was just drumming up business for being known ,and or to sell his queens or other products never can tell playing the numbers ,more happy folks more business . made good video also.

  19. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    I already have the fee schedule worked out, 1-4 Queens mated a 6 pack of my favorite beer. 5 -15 queens a 12 pack and 16 and over a case.
    ...

    just need some little drone shirts,, "will mate for beer"
    Now, this is a plan I can get behind- GG for Beesource president...
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

  20. #39
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    Most sources write complete nonsense. A lot of information is copied from old, unverified sources. With a good, saturated drone background, the queen bee does not have time to fly far, it is better to say this - the drones do not allow her to fly far and inseminate her within the mating yard, proof of this is visual observation: swarms of drones within the mating yard, queens very quickly return to their nucs within from half a minute to one minute with a train of drones, and of course dead drones on the roofs of the hives, which die after copulating with the queen bee in the air and fall down. Of course, in the wild, everything is different, the queen can fly away under the influence of instinct in search of fresh blood, but the drone can fly much further, migrating from apiary to apiary, any family takes it in the spring and summer period. We achieve controlled pairing thanks to good insulation, namely: location altitude - over 1000m above sea level and distance from humans - the first and only settlement is 14 km. from the mating yard is on the other side of the mountain "Syvulya" and the ridge "Gorgan".
    GregV:

    Good thread- I enjoyed the read. If the above is in-fact true, it makes me wonder if a sideliner located in a relatively rural environment and copious drone production might run the risk of inbreeding depression after awhile without systematic importation of outside genetics- I see some parallels to the above and the Page/Laidlaw model of a minimum of 50 breeders to effectively select for traits:

    http://www.capabees.com/shared/2013/...ingprogram.pdf
    Ecclesiastes 11:4

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