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Idiots Apiary

15K views 88 replies 11 participants last post by  William Bagwell 
#1 ·
Guess it is finally time to start my on thread. Started on 3/28/20 with a nuc
from Tpope which has grown to two hives and a nuc. Made a few newbie
mistakes along the way but got incredibly lucky with with most of them.

Yesterday I more than doubled in size. Bought 4 1/2 hives and 2 nucs, 5 of
which have bees, from a list member who is moving to Hawaii. 4 are caught
swarms and 1 has a VSH queen. Thrilled as I had no luck catching a swarm
this year (other than my own:rolleyes:) and buying a VSH queen was high on my wish list.

Must have been prophetic back in back in March when I registered the domain
name resembling the subject line. Now in addition to another Lang hive and
nuc, I have a Warre hive and 2 top bars (1 hive, 1 nuc). Which I have
exactly ZERO experience with. Might be asking lots of questions about them
here and in the sub forums devoted to those flavour hives. Oh, the empty hives are
a very nice cathedral and most of a smaller octagon.

Also now have plenty of old black comb for swarm traps next year, so I can run out of equipment even faster.

Still TF! MMK thermal 'back up' still unused. Still just an aspiring Idiot.
Sure felt like professional Idiot yesterday, had the sweating part down pat.
 
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#5 ·
Much of the early stuff is over in Tpope's thread and a lot of the rest is off topic here (hive stand, electric fence...) JWPalmer hits on two key points in that I started with good stock and the first year is easy.

Two mistakes I made were not recognizing queen cups at the two week inspection. Knew there were not any 'peanuts', but after the hive swarmed on day 27 went back and spotted the cups in the pictures. Caught the swarm BTW and it is now the strongest of the three.

Second was while making my first split. Have read countless times to give splits extra nurse bees. Since I was moving a mostly drawn medium from the hive that swarmed to the new hive with the swarm (thinking it could make immediate use verses the hive raising a queen) I shook all ten frames of wax drawing bees into the nuc. Think you can guess the result. Nuc survived despite the very slow start and is almost equal in number of bees with the much larger original hive.

New chapter with my "Dunwoody" bees starts here so stay tuned.
 
#4 ·
Looking forward to hearing how the cathedral hive works out for you. Being TF the first year is the easy part. Staying TF and still having bees is a little harder. I understand you are starting off with really good stock.
 
#6 ·
BTW was wrong about there being part of a seventh hive, just spare parts to the cathedral. Got a much better look at it this morning and it is fascinating design. A lot of work went into building it! Not real crazy about some of the materials chosen for the exterior. Plan to research bee safe wood preservatives that will maintain the natural look and get it all cleaned up and ready for next spring. The top bar by comparison is kind of 'meh' blue paint.

Not sure my new stock will as good as what I started with. Though they do all appear to be mixed mutts as well. Hope that diversity will help in the future in that they will not all have a bad year at the same time. Hope that makes sense? Getting late and I'm on ten hour days due to Covid.

What's up with the edited thread title? Understand the quibble with the apostrophe, had one myself then took it out. But adding a "The" at the start changes the whole context.
 
#8 ·
William:

I am glad to see you started your own thread, and your TF experience in many ways mirrors my own.

I too 'inherited' some top-bar Warre equipment and have had a 'love-hate' relationship with it ever since. They do afford one the opportunity to learn more about what a colony would normally do when left to their own devices.

I also identify with your thread title. Fits me to a 't'... I'll look forward to your updates.

Russ
 
#10 ·
Wish the top bar was a long lang for compatibility. Do think I'm going to enjoy the cathedral most of all once I get it going. Well, at least until I get around to building an observation hive:)

Several of the hives I just bought have small windows in them. Know that will be fun as I already have one of the plastic 'bubble tops' and it is always a hit with visitors. Pull off the telescoping cover for a few minutes and watch the bees with no suit on.
 
#11 ·
Trying to come up to speed in both the top bar and Warre world...
https://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?363895-Feeding-a-top-bar-nuc&p=1824329#post1824329

One thing - I don't see an coherent strategy regarding the equipment.
Is this mish-mash of non-standard hives is actually by choice?
Because IF so, then I wonder what are logistics of cross-platform moves.
Hive-to-hive bee/frame moves should be trivial, bi-directional, and not require a circular saw. :)

I mean, I am non-standard myself, but I do have a fundamental standard - all frames must be 12.5" long.
Bee

This standard makes cross-platform moves easy for me.
Not to mention my long hives are compatible to the Lang frames in two directions, not just one.

I too want to experiment with vertical hives, but those will be compatible to my long hives.
One exception - my hex swarm traps.
Those were free and so was a no-brainer to take and use them.
These are compatible to the rest of the equipment by simply screwing a longer top bar when moving a frame from the trap to a standard hive.

So I would suggest to make some decisions on this regard asap - else you are looking for more and more pain along the way.
If was doing TB hives, I'd be doing TTBHs with the bar compatible to the Langs (in fact, fully compatible to the Lang single deep frame - a no brainer there).

This cathedral hive (hopefully free or very cheap) - is nothing but a pain with no discernible benefits to it.
Search the forum on this subject for the opinions.
 
#12 ·
It was a bargain any way you look at it. Owner is moving and was thrilled to sell all to one person who showed up (semi) prepared. 5 of the 6 have bees and that includes a Lang and Lang nuc.

True, the rest is a mish-mash of non standard 'toys'. Learning experience at the very least. Have already decided that if I ever build a long hive it will be a long Lang. And not planing on buying any of them odd ball hives new.

May borrow your 'two frames lashed together and turned sideways' idea when I start an OB hive. Have a bunch of free glass that is naturally the wrong size. Can cut glass but lack the skill to cut just a small amount off.

Will search for discussion of the cathedral here. A bit disappointed in what you are suggesting. To my inexperienced with bees eyes it looks no more (or less) useless than the other non standard toys.

As to your reply in the other thread. Yes, I did not search:( Did browse 10 years worth of subject lines and found nothing more useful than the bag feeder. Dead links to pictures of home made stuff and one reference to a purchase at Brushy Mountain. Can I borrow your time machine:)
 
#18 ·
Why; doing "top bar feed" returns many useful links.
Here some of them.

https://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?358151-Top-Bar-Feeding&highlight=top+bar+feed
Bingo! "bottle feeders with long ports" AKA Duckbill Water Bowl and various other names. Under a buck apiece in quantities of 13 on Amazon. Have not seen them at any of the bee vendors, even ones that sell the much wider Boardman feeders. For future nucs can make a tiny rectangular hole in the back so it will not be in the entrance. This one will have to take its chances...
 
#14 ·
Speaking of the Cathedral hive, here is one recent talk:
https://www.beesource.com/forums/sh...hive-Year-2-Modified&highlight=cathedral+hive

But I agree - if you got it for (nearly) free, then anything goes at that price (with the understanding of issues).
It is just people pay eye-popping amounts of money for some over-promised, non-existent features.

I too have hex hives (because I got them free) - these are for swarm trapping and experimentation.
Log hives too - the same (experimentation).

Anyhow, toys are toys.
As long as you are aware of the compatibility issues and, in fact, breaking away from compatibility by design and for your own reasons - then you are the boss and you know what you want.
 
#16 ·
While I have heard of treatment free, I had not put it together with the acronym TF. Honestly upon first reading this thread I thought the "T" stood for "Totally" and the "F" well you can take a guess. It is an interesting shift in perspective.
 
#17 ·
That alternate meaning is often true for those who try treatment free with commercial stock. Starting with a nuc from TPope I hope to remain in the "Mostly" category. But agree there are too many acronyms used here. Likely would have spelled it out elsewhere.

Now to follow the links GregV posted...
 
#20 ·
Update: Sad to report my first loss. Original TPope hive that swarmed, had a split taken from it the next day and later cast at least one small after swarm is now a dead out. Both the split and caught swarm from it are still doing fine. Did an inspection back on June 11th when I noticed it dwindling and there was still at least some brood. Early on would have bet the split would be least likely to make it, but they evicted their drones sooner and had a much smaller space to maintain. Too much space, too many drones for the number of bees. And possibly a poorly mated queen.

So now down to seven, five are being fed at the moment. Still have not received my duck bill feeders for the top bar nuc. Working on cobbling up a feeder for the Warre. Both have some stores so are not starving. Did not plan to feed as much as I have this past week but trying to keep them out of the neighbours humming bird feeders. This has worked for the co-worker who lives on the highway behind us, but not so far for the much closer feeder at the in laws.

The lang nuc from the recent Dunwoody bees is now in a six frame box (10 frame with foam spacers) and on a screened bottom board with oiled inspection board. Have found *zero* mites since last Sunday! It is supposed to have a VSH queen so this is very encouraging. Lots of SHB in the rotten base of the nuc they were in though. Rotted parts went straight in the burn barrel:D Later did the same with the guts of the quilt box off the Warre. Will rebuild it later as a quilt box after its temporary use as a feeder shim,

Need to get the new lang hive on a screened BB for comparison since it is from a caught swarm.
 
#21 ·
William:

Good update- sorry to hear about the colony failure. All-in-all it sounds like things are going well in your apiary and I like your idea of experimenting with a few side-by-side comparisons. I'll look forward to reading about your notes and conclusions.

Haven't done any feeding here yet but based on the amount of drawn comb in a few of the new swarm starts I may need to think long-and-hard about it...

Keep up the good work-

Russ
 
#23 ·
Russ:

Thanks for the encouragement! BTW, my conclusion is that bee keeping is a bunch of hard work. :)

Got the feeder on the Warre and its base replaced. Also pulled the bottom box which was not being used due to the window cover missing. Will make a new one and add it back later.
 
#28 ·
Litsinger: Love it! And the "English for Beekeepers" section, spent way too much time over there.

GregV: Guess I should not discuss the current book I'm reading then.:rolleyes: Odd thing is when I bought the book a few months ago, had *no* non-standard hives. His version is however much closer to what I now wish my two top bars were.
 
#30 ·
Litsinger:

Now you have me wanting to go back and finish reading her site.:no:

Feeding crisis is over. Researched humming bird feeders here on this forum and bought a slightly different style for the in-laws. Also using peppermint oil as a repellent. This tip was from the owner of a small start up bee keeping supply that opened up near me a few months ago. (Only five miles!) Did not have any Bee-Quick or Honey-B-Gone but his suggestion apparently works.

Not feeding any hives at the moment but will feed the one that got none if and when my duck bill feeders ever get here. Only other option is to move them to a lang and fill the excess space with foam.

Got my electric fence turn on for the first time! If I can find it will update the thread I started months ago. Many months ago when I first started it:rolleyes:
 
#32 ·
Starting to see differences in my new Dunwoody bees verses the ones from Tpope. The two I have been monitoring for mites have very low counts. Daily 0s to occasionally 3s. The VSH nuc is the very best but the caught swarm hive is close behind. Finally got a sticky board made for the Warre and it was a 23 for its very first count then a 10 today.

Tpope hive had been averaging 12s for a several weeks then it shot up to a 27 followed by 13, 18, 23 and 21 today. Not in 'Danger Will Robinson!' territory yet but I am concerned.

Another difference is temperament, nadired my first lang last weekend. (Intrigued by the management of a Warre not the size...) Wanted to save some drawn comb from my recent dead out before the wax moths got them, so put a deep under the strongest 'new' hive. Found they are quite pissy and require smoke. 8 or 9 'through the suit' stings while I was working on it. Then 2 more Wednesday (with smoke) just fixing a misaligned entrance reducer. Probably would have went better if I had added the box three weeks ago while I was feeding them.

Saturday daughter and son-in-law worked on a second (non electric...) fence in front of the hives for several hours with no problem. I walked out to see them (no suit) and got got nailed in the ear within seconds. They also hold a long grudge and recognize people. None of the stings, even the ear, was nearly as painful as the bumble bee a few months ago.
 
#33 ·
Starting to see differences in my new Dunwoody bees verses the ones from Tpope.
William:

Thank you for your posts- I look forward to comparing notes with you on mite drop counts at various points in the season and over the development life-cycle of a particular colony.

It is of great interest to me personally to see if there are any particular trends that seem to emerge with the modicum of resistance that seems to manifest itself in some populations here in the Southeast- at least anecdotally.

Is it controlling mite population growth, tolerance to vectored viruses, hygienic behavior a combination of all or something else entirely?

Thanks for sharing what you are observing.

Russ
 
#34 ·
If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.. Great job on learning how to become a beekeeper William. You'll figure out what type of bee furniture works best for your style of beekeeping.

We are getting near to the start of pollen flow and a bit of nectar from willows and maples. I was noticing yesterday how the trees here are showing color on the ends of limbs.
 
#35 ·
Furniture? I have to buy furniture too!? ;) Mine have bringing in pollen every warm day all winter including this weekend. Small baskets, various colors. No idea where they are finding it but they do. Not seen any bees on plants on our property since the first hard freeze. They were all over the tea bushes until then. A few henbit blooming, apparently not enough to attract their attention yet.
 
#36 ·
Off work today and drove up to Barnyard Bees for the first time in well over a year. Wife was thrilled I only spent $32. :) Found out they are moving to a larger store soon. Hope both they and the tiny little start up bee supply five minutes away continue to grow!

Warm day and all seven were active. Four hives and one nuc in the bee yard more so than the two nucs up by the house. Hope it is just the partial shade / slightly cooler making the difference. Hive with Tpope bees most active, dark Dunwoody bees a close second.

First full baskets of pollen I have seen in months so things are blooming here. Various trees starting to bud...
 
#38 ·
Finally took the beginner beekeeping class through my local club last weekend. Had signed up for the March 2020 class. It snowed that day so we did not go. Yes, I'm chicken like that!

Pretty basic stuff but did pick up a few important local timings. Short follow up apiary visit at the instructors farm the next day. Got home and peeked in the weakest of the two nucs up at the house. Still has plenty of stores but only two seams of bees.

So today stole a frame with some capped brood out of a strong hive to boost it. Glad I picked the one I did, nuc was down to two facing patches of brood the size of a coffee cup! Donor frame had a slightly larger patch on both sides and in approximately the same location near one end. Will see what happens... Can do this again in a week or two if needed.

Debating whether to move both nucs back with the others or leave them up here. Moved them last fall due to robbing. No electric fence up here and not going build another expensive electric boondoggle. Do enjoy having some of them close, wife even wants them closer to the house so she can watch them through the windows. Whole front of the house is South facing windows and it would be a lot easier to cobble up a mini fence if they were tight up against the house.

Nucs are easy to move in either direction if robbing or SHB's or whatever is the problem of the day. Decisions, decisions...

Oh, bought a 4' x 8' Harbor Freight trailer. Step side pickup and buying
plywood for bee stuff (or house projects) has been a royal pain the past
few years.
 
#39 ·
Weak little nuc is still holding on. Strong TB nuc beside it was wash-boarding a bit today. Seems way early in the season to me? Guessing it is over crowded and needs splitting or moved to a lang. (See little_john has posted a nice tutorial in the top bar forum) Do plan to split until I run out of equipment as soon as drones are flying.

Working on a wax dipping tank. Picked up 250 LBs of 140 degree melt paraffin and 110 LBs of gum rosin earlier this week. Just ordered an 85 gallon salvage drum. ID is 3 inches larger than the OD of a standard 55 gallon drum or 26" Since the diagonal of a 10 frame lang is 25 3/4" I'm hoping for two stacked and a third nested just like a rectangular tank. If not, will not be the most expensive boondoggle I have ever built. Still a little cheaper than fabricating a tank and much much faster.

Psst, we are being watched. Some other bee forum seems to think traffic on this sub forum is an indication of interest (or lack there of) in TF beekeeping. No idea if they actually read our blathering, but <waves> hi to the lurkers.
 
#40 ·
Last year I had a couple of hives right up against the house. Pretty calm bees and never caused the slightest trouble. I took to sitting out in the sun with my coffee a few feet from the entrances just to watch the bees. Some bees you can't do that with.
 
#42 ·
AR1 Yes, a cup of coffee and watching critters in the morning! Occasionally get to enjoy watching bats returning to their roost behind our house. No stress, no click counter, just watching and enjoying the moment.

Bees get up too late for that 'first cup' but are active all day. All but one of my hives are gentle enough to work with out smoke. Will be careful to not make any weak splits from that one.

Russ, not so much a side hustle for now. Getting close to retirement and will want some income then. Have a few years to gauge local interest and buy what I will need for then.
 
#43 · (Edited)
Last weekend moved my top bar nuc to a lang (Thanks to little_john in the other thread!) Have a co-worker who wants to get into beekeeping cheap. (Yes, I know...) May split back into it in a few weeks if he still wants what he think he wants. Peeked in most of the other hives...

Today added a third frame of capped brood to the weak little nuc. Think it is going to make it now, had me worried a month ago. Added a few empty frames (OSBN) to two hives and one nuc today to hold them off until time to split. Plan to split until I run out of equipment in a few weeks. Will keep you posted how many I end up with.

Now have an 85 gallon 'salvage drum' for my wax dipping tank. Still need a burner, thermometer, gloves, fire extinguisher, etc... In a race to get it finished before I have to use most of my new equipment. Pollen trap and Snellgrove board are not coming out of the box until they go in the dipping tank!

Oh, the nuc from the Dunwoody bees that is supposed to be VSH. It has a marked queen! Big girl with a blue dot on her back. Thrilled to see her for the first time today. Surprised it was blue, only bought them in June so he had not had it very long.
 
#44 ·
Pollen trap and Snellgrove board are not coming out of the box until they go in the dipping tank!
I've used the same logic in my own operation at times- quite a motivator, but sometimes falls apart when other stuff starts falling down around my ears and I am unable to get to the self-imposed critical path item before I find I am in need of the thing that is next in line.

Sounds like you are off and running- I'll look forward to see what your Q/R colony count looks like in a month or so. Hopefully it exceeds your expectations.
 
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