Transfer bees and frames to new hive? Or wait for new nucc or split?
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
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    Davis, ca
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    Default Transfer bees and frames to new hive? Or wait for new nucc or split?

    I am getting a new, pretty 26 frame horizontal hive. YAY. I am in Norcal, just West of sacramento!

    hive.jpg

    My langstroth hives are starting to fail, and are butt ugly(freebies from commercial apiary who helped us at 4h). I have a first year hive, Nuc in april. THey have filled one 10 frame, I added a queen excluder 2 weeks ago and another 10 frame.

    Question is.... Do I even try and move bees to this new hive? or do I leave it for a next spring project, and get a swarm or Nuc to home in it... My heart says move it and use it... but I want to bee smart. Appreciate any feedback!

    Thanks, Carson

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Somerset, NJ
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    649

    Default Re: Transfer bees and frames to new hive? Or wait for new nucc or split?

    People will be better able to answer your questions if you update your profile with your location.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Davis, ca
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    Default Re: Transfer bees and frames to new hive? Or wait for new nucc or split?

    Done! thanks!

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
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    1,530

    Default Re: Transfer bees and frames to new hive? Or wait for new nucc or split?

    Carson,
    are the frames the same?? IE the horizontal hive can use Lang frames?
    If yes then most of the stuff will move.
    If no what is your plane to "migrate" from old frame to new?

    If different the easy way would be a shook swarm or package in the spring.
    However in Northern cal what is the winter like? one could order a queen shake a swarm into the new hive ,, in the "old " location of your biggest hive and feed the heck out of them.

    GG

    GG

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    4,491

    Default Re: Transfer bees and frames to new hive? Or wait for new nucc or split?

    Move the darn bees and enjoy your new hive.

    Insert your brood nest (the lower box below the QX) right behind the new hive entrance and preserve the frame order exactly as they are.
    Whatever frames are above the QX put further away from the entrance (the order is less important as there is no nest).

    Of course your new horizontal hive is fixed in size to 26 frames - you can not just keep adding boxes to it, keep that in mind for further management.
    Unclear from the picture if optional supers are designed in.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
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    4,491

    Default Re: Transfer bees and frames to new hive? Or wait for new nucc or split?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    Carson,
    are the frames the same?? IE the horizontal hive can use Lang frames?
    ....
    GG
    GG, looks like a horizontal Lang to me. Should be 100% compat.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Davis, ca
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Transfer bees and frames to new hive? Or wait for new nucc or split?

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    GG, looks like a horizontal Lang to me. Should be 100% compat.

    Yes, it takes standard frames.....My concern was about the bees being "lost" if I swapped.... I know that sounds stupid, but I have read articles that even moving a hive 6' to trim a tree or something can mess them up...

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Davis, ca
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Transfer bees and frames to new hive? Or wait for new nucc or split?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    Carson,
    are the frames the same?? IE the horizontal hive can use Lang frames?
    If yes then most of the stuff will move.
    If no what is your plane to "migrate" from old frame to new?

    If different the easy way would be a shook swarm or package in the spring.
    However in Northern cal what is the winter like? one could order a queen shake a swarm into the new hive ,, in the "old " location of your biggest hive and feed the heck out of them.

    GG

    GG
    Norcal winter is pretty mild. rain, freezes a couple times... some north wind... I plan to leave the completelower brood and honey in the hive, and only take a few frames of honey this year if they make... I am not worried about over wintering...

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    4,491

    Default Re: Transfer bees and frames to new hive? Or wait for new nucc or split?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carsonsig View Post
    Yes, it takes standard frames.....My concern was about the bees being "lost" if I swapped.... I know that sounds stupid, but I have read articles that even moving a hive 6' to trim a tree or something can mess them up...
    Just replace one hive by the other in about the same spot and be done.
    Set them side by side (position the horizontal hive entrance right next to the current hive.
    Move frames.
    Take away old hive.
    Within minutes, the bees will be working into your new hive and there will be no losses.
    You should not be concerned with a short-term confusion.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Davis, ca
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Transfer bees and frames to new hive? Or wait for new nucc or split?

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Just replace one hive by the other in about the same spot and be done.
    Set them side by side (position the horizontal hive entrance right next to the current hive.
    Move frames.
    Take away old hive.
    Within minutes, the bees will be working into your new hive and there will be no losses.
    You should not be concerned with a short-term confusion.

    thanks!!! Wife likes the bees... but the old crusty rotting hive bodies in the yard, are not her jam.... so she is stoked to have something "pretty"

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Campbell River, BC, CA
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    1,910

    Default Re: Transfer bees and frames to new hive? Or wait for new nucc or split?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carsonsig View Post
    I added a queen excluder 2 weeks ago and another 10 frame.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carsonsig View Post
    I plan to leave the completelower brood and honey in the hive, and only take a few frames of honey this year if they make.
    The only reason to use an excluder, is to keep the queen out of the honey super. The most common reason for that, is to make it easier when pulling honey, just pull the boxes. Another reason, keep the brood and cocoons out of honey super frames.

    If you plan to leave the honey super on for winter, then neither of these reasons would apply. You must remove the excluder for the winter so the queen can move up with the cluster as it moves up. You will get brood in the top box next spring. so there is no reason to have an excluder in now.

    Remove the excluder, let the bees go into that top box unhindered.

    ofc, if it was me, I'd just move all the frames to the new hive and call it done, excluder becomes a moot point.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,530

    Default Re: Transfer bees and frames to new hive? Or wait for new nucc or split?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carsonsig View Post
    Yes, it takes standard frames.....My concern was about the bees being "lost" if I swapped.... I know that sounds stupid, but I have read articles that even moving a hive 6' to trim a tree or something can mess them up...
    place the new hive as close as you can "entrance" wise, a foot or 3 is fine, set the old to the side, place the new, Move all the frames to the new, let them find it.
    I would do this sooner than, dusk so they have time to re orient.
    In a day they will look like they are fine.

    I just moved a 5X5 NUC into a double deep Long hive entrance was 1.5 feet higher and 2 feet back and it worked fine.

    GG

  14. #13

    Default Re: Transfer bees and frames to new hive? Or wait for new nucc or split?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carsonsig View Post
    Yes, it takes standard frames.....My concern was about the bees being "lost" if I swapped.... I know that sounds stupid, but I have read articles that even moving a hive 6' to trim a tree or something can mess them up...
    I have changed an entrance reducer to open on the other side and come back probably a week later to see some foragers landing where the entrance used to be, then fumbling around until they find their way in. An older gentleman told be to put a limb with some leaves on it right where they come out to "reset their GPS". If they have to crawl through a few things to get out, they reorient themselves. Has always worked for me. Used this technique yesterday and this morning everyone was nailing the landing.

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