Walkaway splitting double deeps...keep the queens? Throw on honey supers?
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    144

    Default Walkaway splitting double deeps...keep the queens? Throw on honey supers?

    Wow, am I totally brain-locked!

    Where I'm at:

    10 booming double deeps, no honey supers, no mite treatment yet.

    What I'm thinking:

    Split the doubles, kill the queens, let all 20 generate new queens, go into fall with mite controlled, and a chance to make it through winter with 20 good colonies.

    What I have:

    All the drawn comb I need in the way of brood and honey supers. Six bee yards. Plenty of 5 frame nucs. 30 full frames of honey in deeps.

    So...

    Should I kill the queens, split the doubles, walk away and add a double as soon as necessary in August?

    Pull the queens with capped and uncapped bees, make nucs, split the doubles, walk away, add doubles in August?

    Some variation of the theme but throw honey supers on the now-single and queenless deeps until the new queens emerge?

    My mind is aglow with whirling, transient nodes of thought careening thru a cosmic vapor of invention!

    I've tried to overwinter singles in the past and they all die, every time. They become honey-bound and there's no undoing that in August or September here in northern Illinois. For the most part, the flow is over.

    So here we go:

    Can I take that much capped and uncapped + a queen from potential splits without hurting the splits' chances for surviving and growing their own queens?

    Will deep boxes become bound before the queen emerges?


    Any advice is most welcome!
    Basic, elemental / instinct to survive
    Stirs the higher passions / Thrill to be alive

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Bath, Maine, United States
    Posts
    2,781

    Default Re: Walkaway splitting double deeps...keep the queens? Throw on honey supers?

    Back up and decide where you want to end up. Then make a plan.

    An extractor will un bind a honey bound hive at any time of year.

    Why are the supers off?

    Kill the old sounds like a lot of work. Is the goal to requeen or to have a mite break?

    AADD/HD day?
    It is hard to design a safety net that some will not use as a hammock.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Sisters, Oregon
    Posts
    273

    Default Re: Walkaway splitting double deeps...keep the queens? Throw on honey supers?

    3rd year 6a- Boy, I wouldn't want to kill a queen if she had a great laying pattern. She could be the future of your apiary. I might move her to a resource hive and allow the original hive to make a queen from her eggs.

    I'd get tp the bottom of dying hives single or double. I had 100% overwintering on 5 hives but with an Apivar/OAV series (fall). If I were in your physical shoes I would continue to build large hives with nutrition and aggressive mite treatments.

    You can always remove frames and insert drawn comb to give them more space around the queen. Right now I'm putting my emergency pantry together.
    I'm smart but at the end of the day I'm still the help.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    144

    Default Re: Walkaway splitting double deeps...keep the queens? Throw on honey supers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saltybee View Post
    Back up and decide where you want to end up. Then make a plan.

    An extractor will un bind a honey bound hive at any time of year.

    Why are the supers off?

    Kill the old sounds like a lot of work. Is the goal to requeen or to have a mite break?

    AADD/HD day?

    I'm completely having an ADD moment with this!

    I'll split and kill, break the mite cycle and try supers on some to see if it works.

    I think I have a better chance with the queenless deeps if leave all the brood in the splits.

    You all rule!
    Basic, elemental / instinct to survive
    Stirs the higher passions / Thrill to be alive

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    1,307

    Default Re: Walkaway splitting double deeps...keep the queens? Throw on honey supers?

    Not trying to throw you into another ADD cycle,,,, But.
    You have 10 queens that built booming double deep hives.
    So you are willing to kill all 10 and spin the wheel on what can/will hatch out in 14 days?
    Interesting strategy. Realize IF you like some of the daughters you create you cannot make more, and if you end up with a weather, or mating anomaly you could have 3 or 4 queenless hives. If queens are that, easy come easy go, then carry on.

    I would tend to look at the 4 best hives, and make splits from them , keeping the queens in a NUC as a Backup.
    do 4 --5 frame NUCs from each double deep hive, would give 16 splits , mating queens, 4 Queens in NUCs and 6 hives in production.
    no reason to be all or nothing, one could do some honey and some increase.

    IMO splitting 2 weeks ago would have been better.
    As well some time could be "bought" by ordering 10 or how ever many queen and splitting into a laying queen as apposed to, a make a queen split.
    Depends on if you have funds and what the end of the year goal is.

    If the best way forward for you is to kill off 10 queens then proceed.

    I have only killed 2 all year so doing them all in seems to me to be "over kill" pun intended.

    this is my opinion, may or may not be yours.

    GG

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Bath, Maine, United States
    Posts
    2,781

    Default Re: Walkaway splitting double deeps...keep the queens? Throw on honey supers?

    "this is my opinion, may or may not be yours."
    Pretty much mine as well. A queen in a nuc is valuable, if not to you, than many others.

    A flyback split or four will get you plenty of QCs. A little OA will get you clean nucs. Bet there are plenty of keeps that would love to use your old queens.

    It is time to slow down.
    It is hard to design a safety net that some will not use as a hammock.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    5,204

    Default Re: Walkaway splitting double deeps...keep the queens? Throw on honey supers?

    I will admit that I am having trouble following the logic behind killing 10 good queens, to what end? Better to spit the best queens off into nucs and use some of the queen cells produced in those hives to make other nucs.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

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