Queen excluders or honey excluders?
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
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    Layton,Utah
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    Default Queen excluders or honey excluders?

    Queen excluders or honey excluders? Why or why not use them?
    I have a hive that is a deep and medium for brood and I put a deep super on with wax foundation for them to draw out and store honey..the queen has si very moved up there and started laying full frames of bees... there is two to three frames of honey in there.. today I used an excluder to put between the honey super and two boxes of brood.. good move or bad move?

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Southern, New Hampshire, USA
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    Default Re: Queen excluders or honey excluders?

    Apparently yes to both. Works for some not for others. Some swear by them some swear at them. I think you just have to experiment and see what works for you.

  4. #3
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    Mar 2012
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    Catskills, Delaware Cty, New York, USA
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    2,081

    Default Re: Queen excluders or honey excluders?

    Personally I find that the bees do not readily pass through to store honey above an excluder; I do unlimited broodnest, and it seems the more bees the more they store providing they have extra room, like 2 supers or more during a flow.
    Proverbs 16:24

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
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    Layton,Utah
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    83

    Default

    Re: Queen excluders or honey excluders?
    Personally I find that the bees do not readily pass through to store honey above an excluder; I do unlimited broodnest, and it seems the more bees the more they store providing they have extra room, like 2 supers or more during a flow

    It seems like that is what I’m seeing the more I read and dive into the researching it thank you

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Campbell River, BC, CA
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    1,877

    Default Re: Queen excluders or honey excluders?

    My bees don’t seem bothered by the excluder, except the queen. I get no brood in supers above an excluder, which makes life easier pulling honey.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
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    2,060

    Default Re: Queen excluders or honey excluders?

    Around 1870, a guy named Adair began to promote what he called his "New Idea" - which became associated with the Long Hive, but actually had nothing whatsoever to do with the style of hive used (the Long Hive was just the best hive for demonstrating it's principles).

    One of the Idea's two principles was to make access to the honey stores area as convenient as possible, as he observed that foragers traversing a congested brood area to reach the stores area imposed a limiting factor - so he reversed the positions of the brood and stores areas (so that the stores area was then adjacent to the entrance), and the honey yields increased significantly.

    Based on this finding (which was later confirmed and exploited by Gallup, Doolittle, Poppleton and others) - to improve access to the honey area with modern-day hives, it would appear to be beneficial to provide additional entrances to supers above a queen excluder.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Posts
    1,442

    Default Re: Queen excluders or honey excluders?

    When you have an excluder in place you need to have an upper entrance. The upper entrance is not optional, it is a must have because drones cannot get through the excluder - an upper entrance is their only means of egress. The upper entrance also alleviates the need for the bees to haul everything up through the broodnest. The excluder slows the bees down a couple of seconds, but the upper entrance shortens the trip time more than the excluder slows it down. So if you are using an excluder with an upper entrance like you should be doing, a queen excluder should not be a honey excluder. Use the excluder to establish a honey barrier. Once you establish a honey barrier above the brood nest the queen won't cross it and you can remove the excluder.
    Zone 6B

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
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    336

    Default

    I use them on most hives. I keep the queen in a single deep belowand move frames of capped brood above the excluder at intervals. I’m going out to the yard tonight to pull full boxes of honey that I know will be brood-free. I have upper entrances on the hives, usually the bees don’t use them much as a door, more as a vent hole. They are always sitting there fanning when the flow is on.
    Mistakes are the best taechers

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Southern, New Hampshire, USA
    Posts
    83

    Default Re: Queen excluders or honey excluders?

    Does the upper entrance go on top of the stack, or at the bottom of the honey supers right above the queen excluder? If at the bottom, is it worth notching the frame of the queen excluder (I have a wood framed QE)

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Bedford, Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    296

    Default Re: Queen excluders or honey excluders?

    I am about to put a QE on as mine started to lay in the upper Med super I put on I must have moved her up there by accident when I played with the frames last week. I have a hard time finding the queen (1st yr beek).

    My QE is plain metal (I took off the wooden part as I bought used) and will out that on, then Med box, then inner cover with entrance pointing down then a Med box with syrup bins in it (I have foundationless frames) then cover.
    Not sure if that will work or not so large grain of salt for me
    -Linda

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Crystal Water, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    1,225

    Default Re: Queen excluders or honey excluders?

    Quote Originally Posted by JConnolly View Post
    When you have an excluder in place you need to have an upper entrance. The upper entrance is not optional, it is a must have because drones cannot get through the excluder - an upper entrance is their only means of egress. The upper entrance also alleviates the need for the bees to haul everything up through the broodnest. The excluder slows the bees down a couple of seconds, but the upper entrance shortens the trip time more than the excluder slows it down. So if you are using an excluder with an upper entrance like you should be doing, a queen excluder should not be a honey excluder. Use the excluder to establish a honey barrier. Once you establish a honey barrier above the brood nest the queen won't cross it and you can remove the excluder.
    If there is no brood above the Q excluder there won't be any drones.
    I have used q excluders for 44 years and never had an issue.
    from the Bee House -http://ecologicalsolutions.com.au/bees/?page_id=8
    40 years - +/- 20 H - TF - Subtropical

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