Mites Won't Stop! Using OAV. - Page 2
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 71
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Williamsport, PA
    Posts
    610

    Default Re: Mites Won't Stop! Using OAV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    In a thousand colonies?
    OP never mentioned 1000 colonies

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #22

    Default Re: Mites Won't Stop! Using OAV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    I agree Kamon. I used OAV for three years. First two years in November when the colonies were broodless. The following summer, the mite counts were 20-25. I vaped three times, seven days apart. Had no effect on the population of mites in the colonies. I almost lost my apiaries. I no longer bother with OAV. Too time consuming with a thousand colonies, and the efficacy is way too low.

    So,
    now we have Michael Palmer saying OAV does not work, Kamon Raynolds (great videos!) and Randy Oliver having doubts about OAV efficiency or practicality.

    Are there actually ANY larger beekeepers using OAV?




    My rule of thumb has always been: what the profs use is good for a hobby beekeeper, but not vica versa.

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Yuba County, California, USA
    Posts
    6,598

    Default Re: Mites Won't Stop! Using OAV.

    Quote Originally Posted by mtnmyke View Post
    I also plan on requeening the really problematic hives with daughters of my best stock. Always low mites and resistant to local issues.
    I think this is the key to your long term fix.

    I also agree with others that removal of all sealed brood and treating with both Apivar and also OAV every three days both until mite counts come more under control is a good idea.

    So, remove the sealed brood, then treat using Apivar and OAV, then requeen when mites are under control, apivar will probably still be in the hive. I expect removing sealed brood and doing the double whammy treatment will get your mites under control fairly quickly.

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    2,072

    Default Re: Mites Won't Stop! Using OAV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    So,
    now we have Michael Palmer saying OAV does not work, Kamon Raynolds (great videos!) and Randy Oliver having doubts about OAV efficiency or practicality.
    That sort of statement does you no credit. Suggest you read Johno's post (#12) for an explanation of why a 7-day approach would not work.

    There's a world of difference between whether a treatment is effective or whether it is practical with extremely large numbers of hives. You clearly have an agenda when it comes to bad-mouthing Oxalic Acid.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  6. #25

    Default Re: Mites Won't Stop! Using OAV.

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    That sort of statement does you no credit. Suggest you read Johno's post (#12) for an explanation of why a 7-day approach would not work.

    There's a world of difference between whether a treatment is effective or whether it is practical with extremely large numbers of hives. You clearly have an agenda when it comes to bad-mouthing Oxalic Acid.
    LJ

    Wow, that is all I can say.


    I do highly appreciate Michael Palmer's comments.

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Catskills, Delaware Cty, New York, USA
    Posts
    2,086

    Default Re: Mites Won't Stop! Using OAV.

    I havent read all the posts so not sure if this was mentioned. Cull all the drone comb (leave a little spot intact) add two green drone frames in the top brood box #3 and #8 if 10 frame, for them to draw feeding if needed. Hopefully that will help with the control, just dont forget them. When pulling them out put in another set, freeze the drawn ones, and rotate them for the season. This is for control not a treatment so to speak.
    Proverbs 16:24

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Catskills, Delaware Cty, New York, USA
    Posts
    2,086

    Default Re: Mites Won't Stop! Using OAV.

    PS the crawling bees could be traceal mites so wont hurst to throw in a grease pattie.
    Proverbs 16:24

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    8,241

    Default Re: Mites Won't Stop! Using OAV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
    OP never mentioned 1000 colonies
    Nope, I did

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
    Posts
    1,843

    Default Re: Mites Won't Stop! Using OAV.

    Being old and decrepid I only work about 40 colonies and am trying desperately to get to 25. However when I treat I treat all 40 and if I had a 1000 I would treat all of them, Michael I take it you treat all of them together which no matter how is still a pain in the rear. What I am trying to impress upon the OAV users is that it must be within the colony for a long stretch of time if it is going to eventually get the phoretic mites Apivar is in for 42 days continuous and I am sure you would get the same results if OA was in the hive for 42 days.

  11. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    5,268

    Default Re: Mites Won't Stop! Using OAV.

    Apivar, 42 days per application at approximately $12 per treatment per hive (assuming 2 brood boxes and 4 strips per hive). Requires two hive visists.

    OAV 42 days/3=14 treatments three days apart. Cost per individual application about $0.05, not counting the application device. Cost per treatment regimen per hive $0.70 or less. Requires as many as 14 hive visits. In actual practice, only severly infested hives would need a 42 day treatment program. Most do quite well with 21 days.

    For a hobbyist or sideliner, OAV is still the way to go for most situations as labor is not a major concern. The math changes as the hive numbers increase and resource utilization becomes an issue.

    2 years OAV only and I can't sell the nucs fast enough to keep my apiary manageable. Too many healthy bees.

    Ok, the last part is bragging.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Posts
    367

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cloverdale View Post
    PS the crawling bees could be traceal mites so wont hurst to throw in a grease pattie.
    Unless tracheal mites also cause their wings to shrivel up 😝

  13. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Posts
    367

    Default

    OAV absolutely works. Proof is in how many mites are dropping after each treatment. Since I'm treating every three days, and have nearly treated through two brood cycles, I don't believe it stays in the hive for the full three days. I'm obviously having a lot of mites emerge, and head straight back into cells to mate, unharmed.

    I think the only way OAV would truly work for infestations this bad is to go off label and treat every other day, or daily. Although I've never seen any adverse effects for using OAV. That may quickly change with a treatment schedule this drastic.

    The numbers are coming down, but not as fast as I'd hope - this is why I'll likely use another treatment on the problem hives, and use OAV to maintain.

    I'm going to requeen but will put the old Queens in some nucs as backups. Their immune systems may be worth keeping if I can maintain the mites... But still prefer stock that can maintain numbers somewhat naturally.

    I'll continue to hit the hives with OAV until the backup treatment arrives. Today will be the 9th treatment. I'll keep everyone updated on just how many treatments it took to get under control.

    Only good new is with my Easy Vap, it only takes 45 seconds per hive. 9th treatment will put me just over 4 minutes per hive 😅

  14. #33
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,650

    Default Re: Mites Won't Stop! Using OAV.

    Some people probably have tried treatments every day or two days apart but may be reluctant to post about it.

    I haven't had to go any closer than 4 days to put them on the run, but admittedly I have never seen a mite drop over about 50. A pretty easy row to hoe.

    It is hard to believe that that many mites are being continuously produced by the colony. They must be importing mites from mite bomb colonies somewhere they are robbing out.
    Frank

  15. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    5,268

    Default Re: Mites Won't Stop! Using OAV.

    Frank, that was my conclusion on one of my own hives last fall. Out of 26 hives, one was dropping thousands of mites every treatment. All the rest were <50. I stepped up the program to every three days and finally did get the numbers down but I am convinced they were bringing the mites in as fast as I was killing them for awhile. That hive did make it through winter but is still small compared to my other hives and overwintered nucs.
    Hang in there Mike, after a few more applications you should see a significant reduction in your drop dead count.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  16. #35
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Vauxhall, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    368

    Default Re: Mites Won't Stop! Using OAV.

    I don't know if it means anything, but since I use OAV instead of Apivar, I have every hive make it through the winter.

    My treatment started on Thursday and ends with 7 treatments, four days apart. My hives are still covered. I will have to open on Monday to give pollen patties.

    Somewhere above the questions was about commercial keepers using OAV and I have one north of me (my kind of mentor) doing around 12,000. His arithmetic: 12,000 x four apivar strips (2 fall, 2 spring) is 4x$3.00x12,000= $144,000. His guys visit the hives anyway now and he can buy a lot of equipment (commercial) and OA for $144,000.
    Summ Summ Bienchen summ herum

  17. #36
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Gainesboro, Tennessee
    Posts
    1,480

    Default Re: Mites Won't Stop! Using OAV.

    I think this thread has been very healthy. Showing the variables and also that what makes sense for one person does not make much to another. Apivar is expensive but healthy hives can make alot of money and employees and interns can be a nightmare sometimes (ugh). I would also say that the mite production in Cali and florida are going to be totally different from Vermont and Canada. Here in TN we produce alot of mites in one season. You all have a real winter to deal with though and even though you will produce fewer mites you cannot afford hives to be even a little stressed going into winter. I think this ALL shows the value of work/bee husbandry. I do believe we can select for better bees but there will never be a day when honeybees don't benefit from good beekeepers and beekeepers benefiting from great bees. Anyone who says beekeeping isn't work is smoking the wrong kind of smoker fuel
    Feeding early patties. https://youtu.be/bUDd3vk7bgY

  18. #37
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,650

    Default Re: Mites Won't Stop! Using OAV.

    If circumstances allowed there to be a very high mite load for a considerable period it probably takes longer for the virus counts to drop even after the mite numbers have been reduced to the 1 or 2 percent economic threshold. I have seen the figure of at least 2 rounds of brood rearing after the mites are destroyed to allow a full cluster of winter bees to be produced. If the numbers are high get them down as quick as you can. Even if the treatment has some minor brood mortality it seems that could be forgiven.

    As that relates to Oxalic acid, treatments at much closer intervals might be a worthwhile consideration. Whether that could lead to increase likelihood of causing resistance to develop, would have to be put on the cost/benefit scale. Some people will rate that as considerable and others as unlikely.
    Frank

  19. #38
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Gainesboro, Tennessee
    Posts
    1,480

    Default Re: Mites Won't Stop! Using OAV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Juhani Lunden View Post
    So,
    now we have Michael Palmer saying OAV does not work, Kamon Raynolds (great videos!) and Randy Oliver having doubts about OAV efficiency or practicality.

    Are there actually ANY larger beekeepers using OAV?




    My rule of thumb has always been: what the profs use is good for a hobby beekeeper, but not vica versa.
    Thanks juhani for the compliment on the videos but I totally wouldn't put myself in the same sentence much less the same catagory as Palmer and Oliver. Both of them need to get some more YouTube videos up!
    Feeding early patties. https://youtu.be/bUDd3vk7bgY

  20. #39

    Default Re: Mites Won't Stop! Using OAV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennessee's Bees LLC View Post
    Both of them need to get some more YouTube videos up!

  21. #40
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Santa Cruz, CA
    Posts
    367

    Default

    Thanks everyone for the input.

    It really is important to know your area when treating for anything, especially mites. I know a lot of beekeepers around me get advice from YouTube/internet. Often they prepare their hives for winter not realizing that's when our bees do the best - since they got advice from a northern beekeeper! I personally start building my colonies up around October to be ready for the flow! A northern beekeeper would think me mad! Our hard times are by far June - October as not much is blooming. Eucalyptus is our first sign of relief around the end of October.

    It's important to know these things to properly manage your hives!

    Back to the original post. I just did my 9th treatment on the problem hives. I just simply can't believe how many mites are on the mite boards every three days when I scrape them clean again! Is it really possibly they are getting it from somewhere else? Where? We're still in a light flow, not enough to get much honey, but I also haven't noticed any robbing... Yet.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •