Two hives has queen laying in honey super.
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  1. #1
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    Default Two hives has queen laying in honey super.

    I got into my hives today with the weather starting to get nice. Noticed that the queen in both hives started to laying in the honey super. How can I get her to stop without using an queen excluder. Should I take the super and put it on the bottom and that way the foragers leave the honey down there so they dont have to go all the way to the top.

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Two hives has queen laying in honey super.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chief11885 View Post
    How can I get her to stop without using an queen excluder
    You can't. Well, actually you can if you kill her. That kinda defeats the purpose though. The bees do not recognize that box as as having a different purpose. If you put the super below the brood box, the bees will move the honey up. Best action is to shake all the bees off the super frames, install the queen excluder, and put all the frames back in the box in the same order you took them out. The queen will be in the bottom box and the bees will take care of the brood still in the super. I just did this with all my hives in preparation for the flow.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  4. #3
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    Apr 2012
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    Default Re: Two hives has queen laying in honey super.

    Just part of normal broodiest expansion. By the end of the flow they should be back down in the brood boxes. I let my hives do this and I have almost never had brood in the first super when I pull them. I can tell some brood were reared in the box, though, by the color of the comb.

    This year I plan to super on bottom. Placing new supers right above the brood nest and under previously filled supers to see how this works. Might encourage even more brood raising in the box. Not sure.

    Anyway, it does no harm to the honey outside maybe making it a little darker.

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Two hives has queen laying in honey super.

    Firstly, make sure there is lots of laying room in the two broods. Remove frames in outside position that contain honey. Transfer frames of capped brood to weak hives. Insert empty drawn comb into brood nest or install blank foundation on the sides.

    Use side entrances in bottom entrance. If center is blocked, it is warmer lower in the broods and queen will lay eggs lower in the hive. I use a center block leaving 2 inch side entrances.

    Block off any top entrances. Bees want to store pollen close to entrance and then have brood above and beside the pollen.

    Top super. Goal is to get a band of honey that queen is less likely to cross over. Bees want the honey directly above the brood nest. Put the ripest/capped honey directly above the brood nest.

    Make sure there is always space in the honey supers for nectar and honey. One can remove bottom super weekly and extract or add supers on top. Always put the empty super or the wet super in the top position. Bees want the honey directly above the brood nest.

    I am not an advocate for queen excluders. Yes, you know where the queen is at the expense of honey production and added risk of swarming because of clogging the brood nest.
    Zone 3b. If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Two hives has queen laying in honey super.

    Quote Originally Posted by JClark View Post
    Just part of normal broodiest expansion. By the end of the flow they should be back down in the brood boxes. I let my hives do this and I have almost never had brood in the first super when I pull them. I can tell some brood were reared in the box, though, by the color of the comb.

    This year I plan to super on bottom. Placing new supers right above the brood nest and under previously filled supers to see how this works. Might encourage even more brood raising in the box. Not sure.

    Anyway, it does no harm to the honey outside maybe making it a little darker.
    JClark, try to super to the sides, move frames from center of almost full super up to new super, like #4,5,6,7 to the same position, 10 frame example. Slide 1,2,3,8,9,10 to the center. Add the new frames in all the open positions. IMO what it does is move the full up so the bees do not have to travel across, adds the "working" frames over the brood nest, adds empty to the sides, where rarely I see brood. Most of the brood I see in the super is in the center. Helps them to move up as the bees have full frames in the top already. Somewhat a pyramid concept.

    GG

  7. #6
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    Aug 2015
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    Default

    She wants more room, see why.

  8. #7
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    Apr 2012
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    Default Re: Two hives has queen laying in honey super.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    JClark, try to super to the sides, move frames from center of almost full super up to new super, like #4,5,6,7 to the same position, 10 frame example. Slide 1,2,3,8,9,10 to the center. Add the new frames in all the open positions. IMO what it does is move the full up so the bees do not have to travel across, adds the "working" frames over the brood nest, adds empty to the sides, where rarely I see brood. Most of the brood I see in the super is in the center. Helps them to move up as the bees have full frames in the top already. Somewhat a pyramid concept.

    GG
    Now that is a good idea. Thanks.

    To the OP: do not just super on top if the super below is full w/out some other swarm management technique in play. Allowing the bees to fully fill the space above the brood nest w/ honey will cause them to become honey bound and backfill the brood nest--and swarm. See the Walt Wright (I think it is him) writings on expanding the brood nest for swarm prevention.

    I guess it really depends on how long your main flow is. If short, probably less of an issue. Here, the main flow is heavy for 2-3 months so top supering only tends to cause swarming as the second super is getting filled if you are not getting into the brood nest every week to add empty frames.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    Cedar Lake, Indiana, USA
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    Default Re: Two hives has queen laying in honey super.

    Not much to add except that there is lots of good advice in this thread

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Sisters, Oregon
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    Default Re: Two hives has queen laying in honey super.

    2nd year here 6a- I have the same situation in a couple of my hives. I'm also trying the idea of having a pollen box (medium) below the brood box and keep it there undisturbed all year as a part of my winter config. So in the ones where the queen is already laying in the super I moved it below. From everything I've read so far this is the time of year to do it. Walt Wright was a big proponent of this idea and I know that Enjambres (Nancy) has this as part of her config.

    Seasoned people on this thread are giving good advice so if I'm doing this incorrectly please let me know.
    I'm smart but at the end of the day I'm still the help.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Dayton, TN
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    201

    Default Re: Two hives has queen laying in honey super.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chief11885 View Post
    I got into my hives today with the weather starting to get nice. Noticed that the queen in both hives started to laying in the honey super. How can I get her to stop without using an queen excluder. Should I take the super and put it on the bottom and that way the foragers leave the honey down there so they dont have to go all the way to the top.
    Look up some of Ray Marler's posts on this. He doesn't use QE's. I believe he bottom supers (adds empty supers under any full supers) and pulls any frames that contain brood into the super being added. I believe that at this time in the flow there should be a honey barrier around any brood in the super and that the queen will not go any further up and in most cases the bees will back fill any cells with honey as the brood emerges. Ray say this takes more work but likes not having QE's.
    Andy

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