Removing and then returning queen to stop swarm....
Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Richmond, va
    Posts
    122

    Default Removing and then returning queen to stop swarm....

    Checked my top 5 strongest hives today and all of them had fully drawn, almost capped queen cells. Argggh!!
    In one I moved the queen and some good frames into a nuc and removed most of the Queen cells.

    I really don't want any more hives, and have limited more boxes to make more splits. Not to mention the flow seems to have a slight start here, so i hate to interrupt the production.

    I removed the QC's from the rest of hives, just to give me a week to figure our what to do.

    Friend and I were talking about removing the queens into a holding nuc, and in a few days (5 days?) go in and remove all queen cells that may have been created. It I time it right, they should be hopelessly queenless at this point. I then re-combine the nuc to the hive and they go on about their merry way.

    Thoughts?

    Who has done this and what was the outcome? Did it squash the swarming desire once they find themselves queenless?

    It's a bit of work, but I only need to do this on 4 other hives. If fact, I could still do this with the hive I already split.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Northeast PA
    Posts
    476

    Default Re: Removing and then returning queen to stop swarm....

    Honestly, if you don't make a substantial split, you'll just be delaying the swarm.

    I've been there, tried to cut out the queen cells, tried to make "mini" splits, none of it did anything other than push back the swarm by a week or two.

    Unless you live in an area with a pronounced and obvious dearth. In that case, you might be able to get away with pushing back the swarm, repeatedly, until the dearth hits.
    Last edited by username00101; 04-05-2020 at 08:33 PM.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    4,972

    Default Re: Removing and then returning queen to stop swarm....

    With the queen gone, and no virgin queens in the works, the hive will not swarm. I would keep the queen and her entourage in a nuc for about two weeks, then do a newspaper recombine. Make sure the nuc is strong enough so the queen can continue to lay at her maximum rate. Like five frames of bees and a shake or two extra.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  5. #4

    Default Re: Removing and then returning queen to stop swarm....

    Thoughts. Good queen but want to swarm. As you did pull her and brood. Let them raise a new queen. After she start to lay combine it back. New queen, brood break and you didnít loose a queen. If you need it. You can all is pinch her off.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,468

    Default Re: Removing and then returning queen to stop swarm....

    Some authors feel that you have to substantially change the ratio of foraging bees to the amount of capped brood and juvenile bees. Adding space alone does not do it; taking out the queen may only put them off until the first virgin emerges. In the mean time all the capped brood is hatching every day so the hive is not getting any less crowded.

    I have done a Taranov swarm when I found this condition and it stops the swarm immediately. This moves out the queen and the non flying bees will not hurt production much as the foragers remain and capped brood is emerging. You do need an extra box.

    I may seem like a broken record but the Snelgrove method 2 does virtually the same demographic change by moving the queen, all frames with queen cells and most all capped and open brood to a box above the division board. Amazingly the workers tear down the queen cells, the queen goes back to lay. That is Enjambres standard method to deal with an impending swarm. Sounds goofy but it works.

    I usually do the method 1 snelgrove split before they get to that stage but they have forced my hand a couple of times! When they are ready to go it takes something pretty major to change their minds.
    Frank

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Bath, Maine, United States
    Posts
    2,731

    Default Re: Removing and then returning queen to stop swarm....

    Old queen or new queen raised under swarm conditions, which do I want to keep? Let me think for about a second. I think I know.

    Cheap instant Snelgrove board without the doors, piece of plywood or heavy plastic. Doors, drill and corks.

    Kind of a cutdown split and recombine.
    It is hard to design a safety net that some will not use as a hammock.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Northeast PA
    Posts
    476

    Default Re: Removing and then returning queen to stop swarm....

    Quote Originally Posted by Saltybee View Post
    Old queen or new queen raised under swarm conditions, which do I want to keep? Let me think for about a second. I think I know.

    Cheap instant Snelgrove board without the doors, piece of plywood or heavy plastic. Doors, drill and corks.

    Kind of a cutdown split and recombine.

    Wait, where do you stick the corks? Or you mean you just drill some holes in the side of the hive and stick plywood in there?

    I think that's a good way to damage your equipment and it wouldn't take much effort to just make a little groove in something like 1 inch plywood and stick a cork in there instead.
    Last edited by username00101; 04-06-2020 at 12:51 PM.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Great Falls Montana
    Posts
    7,866

    Default Re: Removing and then returning queen to stop swarm....

    Look up taranov swarming and do it. It will save your colonies from swarming. After the artificially swarmed colony has a verified laying fertile queen, you have to wait until brood is capped when you can determine she is not laying drones; You can pinch the old queen if you want no increase and do a newspaper combine.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Bath, Maine, United States
    Posts
    2,731

    Big Grin Re: Removing and then returning queen to stop swarm....

    Well I would put the cork in the entrance holes I made in the side of the box to serve as doors. To open and close the doors.You can put them where you like.

    No argument with Vance's and just cheaping out on Crofter's.
    It is hard to design a safety net that some will not use as a hammock.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,468

    Default Re: Removing and then returning queen to stop swarm....

    The Taranov is a quick way to get it done. Vance lays out a good procedure and the recombining option is if you dont want increase.

    I already have the Snelgrove boards and no longer need to read the instruction book. I dont try to find the queen and my process of sorting looks a lot like a taranov. It looks a bit wild but remember you ARE deliberately setting about disrupting the bees obvious plans. You let them think they have had their way and you get the results that suits your purposes.
    Frank

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Northeast PA
    Posts
    476

    Default Re: Removing and then returning queen to stop swarm....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vance G View Post
    Look up taranov swarming and do it. It will save your colonies from swarming. After the artificially swarmed colony has a verified laying fertile queen, you have to wait until brood is capped when you can determine she is not laying drones; You can pinch the old queen if you want no increase and do a newspaper combine.
    OK, so the assumption is that you will do this, that will take roughly a month.

    Now you're around May 6th.

    So now OP has a combined colony that is probably loaded with bees, on May 6th. How will OP manage swarming from that point forward?

    In a perfect world, they'll just produce a massive honey crop, but if OP doesn't have a stack of drawn comb laying around (that must be nice), now what?

  13. #12
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Hot Springs, AR, USA
    Posts
    61

    Default Re: Removing and then returning queen to stop swarm....

    Quote Originally Posted by dddillon View Post
    Checked my top 5 strongest hives today and all of them had fully drawn, almost capped queen cells. Argggh!!
    In one I moved the queen and some good frames into a nuc and removed most of the Queen cells.

    I really don't want any more hives, and have limited more boxes to make more splits. Not to mention the flow seems to have a slight start here, so i hate to interrupt the production.

    I removed the QC's from the rest of hives, just to give me a week to figure our what to do.

    Friend and I were talking about removing the queens into a holding nuc, and in a few days (5 days?) go in and remove all queen cells that may have been created. It I time it right, they should be hopelessly queenless at this point. I then re-combine the nuc to the hive and they go on about their merry way.

    Thoughts?

    Who has done this and what was the outcome? Did it squash the swarming desire once they find themselves queenless?

    It's a bit of work, but I only need to do this on 4 other hives. If fact, I could still do this with the hive I already split.
    Did you feed these colonies this year? Did you really need to? If you have a good queen and your bees have stores left from winter it's easy to have a hive get "syrup bound".

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Albany NY
    Posts
    272

    Default

    I'm not a fan of trying to cut all queen cells. Invariably you miss some so they swarm anyway and you are left with the runtiest queen from a mini cell you couldn't see when you were cutting. Any method that removes a bunch of bees and old queen for about a month and recombine. Pull whichever queen you don't want. Personally, when it gets to this point I would make splits. Then give overwintered nucs to you friends next year 🙂 And reassess what went wrong with your swarm prevention this year. Over sintered nucs sell well but don't taste good. If you make $1000 worth of honey or nucs it's still money.... If what you are after is more honey then check with locals what your normal swarm season is and use preventative measures in time to thwart that instinct. There are many. Checkerboarding, Osbn, snellgrove, etc. Have fun!

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •