Shelter in place...unintended consequences - Page 6
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  1. #101
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    Scott county, Arkansas, Usa
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    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryVanderpool View Post
    What is DISGUSTING is that this has happened before and apparently we didn't learn anything.
    Will we learn ANYTHING this time?

    https://www.statesmanjournal.com/sto...em/5083577002/
    An interesting question of which I am hoping was posed to elicit commentary. I think we have learned plenty. The thing we fail to do is act upon the things we learn.

    What do all industries complain about? One thing I hear about is overreach of the Federal Government, from Wall Street all the way to Beekeepers. Yet, when the system breaks down, we all ask, "How could the Government let this happen"?

    We have Varroa, SHB, African HBs, and Phunny Honey because Customs doesn't have the resources to check all international shipments, only a small percentage. The things I listed are but a very small part of daily activity at the ports. One could only guess how much that would slow the flow of goods into this country if they were to begin inspect each container.

    The quarantines put in place to slow the spread of Africanized Hbs were largely if not wholly ignored.

    Consider this, if the person in charge of purchasing for a large Health Care organization had one million masks on hand and threw them away because they were old and the elastic had become brittle, after ordering one million replacements. I think the CEO would want to know why you had so many on hand that they become too old to use, and if they became too old to use, why did you order the same amount of replacements? I would hate to be the one to tell the CEO, "Because I thought we might need them". Even the person at the unemployment office might scoff at that. These sorts of expenditures are easy for the bean counters to zero in on and act upon. What about ventilators?
    I think the love of money is at the root of the problem. The following article may offer some insight. It gets right to the numbers in the the first few paragraphs.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/dianahe.../#5f9d8b5776dd

    The Government faces the same sort of problems when it comes to waste and fraud. What would taxpayers say if the Fed purchased 10 million masks a year while disposing of 10 million a year for the last 30 years? Whomever was in charge of those expenditures would be suspected of taking bribes from the suppliers.

    The powers and respect of the office President have been being eroded for as long as I can remember. Maybe, standing up to the President resonates with the voters that elected the Governors or Representatives of states, but there is a price to be paid when seeking from the same.

    I don't think any one person or group is to blame for the situation we are in. Bureaucracies seem to take on a life of their own. In the words of John Kay, "We have created a monster that will not obey".

    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

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  3. #102
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    Suffolk Co, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    AHudd- Well said.

  4. #103
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
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    Northern Il, USA
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    625

    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by Murdock View Post
    When did it get to be the federal government's job to prepare state/private hospitals for disease control. Individuals must take care of themselves and resort to federal support after they have done so. Hospitals PAY personnel to order/warehouse equipment/supplies so they need to ask themselves the question of WHERE IS THE PPE. It should have been ordered from their suppliers in December.
    Not sure if I mentioned it in this thread or not, but 4 years ago I attended a disaster prep seminar with the local police, fire, heath department and hospital personnel. We were informed by the guy in charge of directing county disaster prep that we had available a warehouse (in a secret location) full of PPE and vital medications etc, stored up just for this sort of event. To date in local media I have not heard a peep that this material has been made available to local hospitals.

    At my hospital we are reusing 'disposable' PPE until it dies on our faces. Nurses are ordering materials from Amazon and hand-crafting PPE for use on the units. We have even had requests from our doctors to make them a set.

    The Feds cannot respond fast enough to local problems, and should not be expected to.

  5. #104
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    West Bath, Maine, United States
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    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    The Feds cannot respond fast enough to local problems, and should not be expected to.

    In what sense is Covid a local problem?

    Fifty stockpiles plus territories expiring each owned by the states? Which State is going to send over their stockpile to stop the next Ebola before it reaches our shores?

    If NH does not stockpile and Maine does are we going to not treat, close the border to NH? Like it or not the Feds are the practical stockpile. Doesn't make me all fussy warm either.
    It is hard to design a safety net that some will not use as a hammock.

  6. #105
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    Feb 2017
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    Northern Il, USA
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    625

    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by Saltybee View Post
    The Feds cannot respond fast enough to local problems, and should not be expected to.

    In what sense is Covid a local problem?

    Fifty stockpiles plus territories expiring each owned by the states? Which State is going to send over their stockpile to stop the next Ebola before it reaches our shores?

    If NH does not stockpile and Maine does are we going to not treat, close the border to NH? Like it or not the Feds are the practical stockpile. Doesn't make me all fussy warm either.
    Sure, Feds should have many stockpiles. But the feds are famously slow and tend to use sledgehammers when they need to drive nails. Any state or locality that doesn't plan for fast, local response is asking for trouble.

  7. #106
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    Jun 2013
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    Greenville, NC, USA
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    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by Saltybee View Post
    "It should have been ordered from their suppliers in December."

    I don't think they were included in the Intelligence Agency's briefings.
    But they were aware that it was flu season and then Wuhan started up. To a good logistics professional these are red flags that say CHECK YOUR INVENTORY and what additional might be needed.

  8. #107
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    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    I am not saying there is no shared fault. Local fault goes down to individuals as well. Been to the hardware store, Lowes, & Walmart myself.

    (I meant to say fuzzy warm, fussy warm may be as appropriate.)
    It is hard to design a safety net that some will not use as a hammock.

  9. #108
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    syracuse n.y.
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    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    Connecticut's governor on Tuesday said the U.S. Strategic National Stockpile of medical supplies was now empty and the state was "on its own" trying to secure ventilators and masks to fight the coronavirus pandemic.
    well now all the governors can stop going on tv and complaining and have more time to address the problems.
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  10. #109
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    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    you said it Mike.
    Proverbs 16:24

  11. #110
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    Northern Colorado, USA
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    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    uggg,

    we are having more problems with police impersonators.

  12. #111
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    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    Thought I would throw out a good story. (or go Pats) from the Boston Globe.

    Landing today: A Patriots plane full of 1 million N95 masks. Here's how the plan came together
    It is hard to design a safety net that some will not use as a hammock.

  13. #112
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    Edgefield, SC
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    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    Here is one I just read about: mass chicken death.
    A literal chicken holocaust due to farmers having to euthanize chickens due to loss of demand for eggs.

  14. #113
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    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    less travel to work, less Egg McMuffins. lots of cooks home and restaurants closed as well, I am doing my part just had a couple eggs.

    Milk prices way down as well. I hope the herds and flocks are not thinned too much , we will be short when we come back online.
    I would think the chickens can be used for soup or dog food or something.

    Here gardening places are shut down, could be some interesting food issues.

    GG

  15. #114
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    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    some people not taking their nucs due to unemployment and lack of money
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  16. #115
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    Edgefield, SC
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    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    Milk prices way down as well. I hope the herds and flocks are not thinned too much , we will be short when we come back online.
    I would think the chickens can be used for soup or dog food or something.
    Chickens can be hatched in massive numbers but it takes 16 weeks before they lay eggs.
    The report I read did not talk about using the carcasses for anything which IS a shame.
    We will feel the effects of this shutdown for a long, long time.

  17. #116
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    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by LizardKing View Post
    Here is one I just read about: mass chicken death.
    A literal chicken holocaust due to farmers having to euthanize chickens due to loss of demand for eggs.
    I am unconvinced.
    If anything, at my place we are eating MORE, not LESS.
    Seriously.

    People are still eating about the same and NOT less.
    Pretty darn obvious.


    What these reported incidents (IF true) indicate that - those food item losses where basically pre-determined losses down the line, anyway (just no one cared or reported of them before or they were less visible, UNTIL now).

    PS: so, it is possible that LESS food is being spoiled and tossed - that would be a welcome correction, actually.
    PPS: food price corrections upward is long overdue, as well; the food should cost more (marginally, but more) - this I observe.
    PPPS: in long-term, the COVID event is probably a good thing (very similar to sanctions imposed onto Russia - which only prompted the self-sufficiency);
    - what hurts you in short-term, makes you stronger in the long-term (the terminal end is a possibility also, of course)
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  18. #117
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    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    OH MY GOD!
    We have a Chicken Holocaust Denier here!
    Let me post a link to the article from some fake news outlet about it:
    https://www.startribune.com/egg-dema...d/569817312/#6

    Now, I too wonder if there is an actual shortage of demand since grocery stores are open and I see locally that produce is in short supply.
    Could be this farmer is angling for gov't bucks for his business and the newspaper desperate for doom and gloom stories.
    These days so much of the media is simply straight up lies and many many half truths all serving an agenda and not the truth....

  19. #118
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    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
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    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    I am unconvinced.
    If anything, at my place we are eating MORE, not LESS.
    Seriously.

    People are still eating about the same and NOT less.
    Pretty darn obvious.


    PS: it is possible that LESS food is being spoiled and tossed - that would be a welcome correction, actually.
    PPS: food price corrections upward is long overdue, as well; the food should cost more (marginally, but more) - this I observe.
    PPPS: in long-term, the COVID event is probably a good thing (very similar to sanctions imposed onto Russia - which only prompted the self-sufficiency);
    - what hurts you in short-term, makes you stronger in the long-term (the terminal end is a possibility also, of course)
    We are almost eating the exact same, 3 squares a day times the family size. Could be a shift from eggs to cereal or something, but then the milk consumption would go up.
    Well Easter was "canceled" commercially, we did not do the colored eggs thing but is that a big blip on the screen, I did not feel the risk of a visit to the store for Egg coloring was warranted, so we just had them plain. I guess some may have not had them at all. Also had way less candy.
    Maybe the egg producers over sized and the shrink would have happened with or with out COVID.
    Here in Mich a few weeks ago was a big fire took out like almost 2000 birds.

    Could be less waste, as well there are 30,000 less people eating...

    GG

  20. #119
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    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    ......
    Could be less waste, as well there are 30,000 less people eating...

    GG
    Waste savings are really coming from the outside eating (not home eating).

    For example, ALL unused food in McDonalds must be thrown away in few short minutes or hours (depending).
    There are very strict and absolute safety requirements (per a former McDonald's shift manager - son of our friends).
    They would toss ALL cooked hamburgers NOT sold in few minutes (literally 5-10 minutes).
    PS: correction per my wife - NOT 2 hours as I thought, but virtually 5-10 minutes - this is to avoid potential liability due to potential bacteria growth in the warm meat

    God forbid IF I toss a perfectly good hamburger at home - of course NOT.
    It goes into the fridge and I will eat it later.
    Last edited by GregV; 04-22-2020 at 11:05 AM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  21. #120
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    Default Re: Shelter in place...unintended consequences

    Quote Originally Posted by LizardKing View Post
    OH MY GOD!
    We have a Chicken Holocaust Denier here!
    Let me post a link to the article from some fake news outlet about it:
    https://www.startribune.com/egg-dema...d/569817312/#6

    Now, I too wonder if there is an actual shortage of demand since grocery stores are open and I see locally that produce is in short supply.
    Could be this farmer is angling for gov't bucks for his business and the newspaper desperate for doom and gloom stories.
    These days so much of the media is simply straight up lies and many many half truths all serving an agenda and not the truth....
    Regardless of the media printings..
    People do NOT eat less.
    No need to argue over that.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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