Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    Quote Originally Posted by dudelt View Post
    I believe the brushes will catch a few mites but with the mites already in the hive multiplying at an exponential rate, the brushes will never make a large dent in the population. It also might work better late in the summer and early fall when hives begin to die from mites and they start getting carried from hive to hive at a higher rate. However, I hope I am proven wrong and it works great. Good luck with your experiment.
    The VMEs are just one part of the overall solution.
    Regular sugar dusting will take care of the phoretic mites inside the hive.
    Drone cell culling will take care of some mites in the drone brood.

    hopefully all 3 solutions used in a consistent fashion would be enough to keep the mites at bay

    Also, as far as getting pissed off at your fellow posters, take it as a challenge and prove them wrong. People laughed at and made fun of Edison, Tesla and the Wright Brothers just to name a few. Are you up to the challenge?
    It's unfortunate that I had to deal with some posters in a manner that I did not like from myself. I expected more professional behavior and more open mindedness.

    I came up with a high tech idea a few years back but nobody jumped on it and patented it. My idea was to place computer controlled mini lasers in the hive that have sensors to find mites on the individual bees. When it senses a mite, the lasers zaps the mite and saves the bee. It would cost millions to develop but I am sure some young computer genius could make it work.
    LOL.... but you'll be surprised if the DOD already has something like that.

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  3. #42
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    I came up with a high tech idea a few years back but nobody jumped on it and patented it. My idea was to place computer controlled mini lasers in the hive that have sensors to find mites on the individual bees.
    https://thebeereport.com/2019/08/07/...in-honey-bees/
    Austin powers, sharks, with fricken laser beams on it head killing mites

    JOJO I showed you patents that cost more then my truck is worth new (and I sure as **** didn't by it new), that came to zero income, but are in efect and will stop you from makeing this product
    you're in the Kruger/Dunning trap, without getting over political its why HS age burger flippers feel they are worth as much or more than EMTs and why teenagers and 3rd-year beekeepers know everything https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10626367

    not coming at you high brow... just a beekeeper, and a product developer, who has had the bees, and the word show him he got a bit too big for his britches.
    you asked for feedback and got it, your target market is unconvinced.
    come back with a completed product and test results...
    you asking for the distance between brushes to remove an economically viable amount of mites if anyone here knew, why would they tell you? Vs make it them selfs and sell it

    I realy appreciate you enthosuation, but the lack of basic beekeeping education is a problem... learn to keep bees, if your still around in a few years (many arnt) we will talk
    grasping at random internet straws in hope you and all your "experience" are more enlightened than the "stupid" beekeepers before you is a poor way forward, its not inspiration, its often a failure

    I expected more professional behavior and more open mindedness.
    bahahahaha... Kettle calling the pot black, your on your own now... I did try
    hit me up in 5 years when you have a tested beta test unit, not a pipe dream, a peer reviewed study and have treatment vs control data on 100+ hives and 3 replicates in different climates.

    I know it sounds harsh, but till then it sounds like another visit from the "good Ideal fairy" (can any one say OA in a bug fogger), someone selling snake oil, or a noob with no clue

    prove me wrong, not an insult, a challenge, we would all be much better if you were right...
    who wins at vegas, the card counter, or the guy who makes the random bet...
    Last edited by msl; 03-19-2020 at 11:23 PM.
    "oh well, let us stick to science. let them have their beliefs and intuitions!" -Medhat Nasr

  4. #43
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    Quote Originally Posted by JojoJaro View Post
    I expected more professional behavior ....
    You and crofter go [ (moderator edited ................... end edit)]

    The idea is not a troll and I deserve an apology now. If you won't give it, then[ (moderator edited ................... end edit)].
    Pot - kettle - black. Foul-mouthed, with too much ego, too much arrogance, and probably with too much coffee inside you - unless it's something you're smoking ...

    I tried to help you with your first 'wacky' post, as I really like to help beginners whenever possible - but it has become fairly clear to me from your second wacky post (and I see there's now a third - in just 48 hrs after arrival) that you want to talk and not listen. Learning involves listening, but it appears that you don't have either the capacity or the willingness to do that.

    Don't take my word for this - trawl through the forum's past posts - say, during the last 2 or 3 years - see if you can find even one instance of a newcomer being disruptive or complaining about the way in which they've been treated. I can tell you now that you won't find a single one. So what makes you different ? What makes you so special ?

    Do yourself a favour and take a look through the beekeeping patents which have been filed since around 1850 - there are many thousands of them. But how many have been taken up by others during this same period ? Less than a handful.

    How many beekeepers have there been - world-wide - since the days of Langstroth ? The number must run into the millions. And yet YOU - without any hands-on knowledge of beekeeping whatsoever - can see possibilities that no-one else has ever seen. Don't you realise that you are effectively saying that the existing beekeeping community must be very stupid indeed. And you wonder why your posts are not being well-received ...
    LJ
    Last edited by Rader Sidetrack; 03-20-2020 at 06:50 AM. Reason: Language not suitable for 'original' post is also not suited for quotes, so was edited by moderator
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  5. #44
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    Quote Originally Posted by JojoJaro View Post



    LOL.... but you'll be surprised if the DOD already has something like that.
    Wish we did. Would make a nice tool in our integrated vector control tool kit. Betting this idea came from the laser mosquito zapper the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation was funding development of. Keys in on wing beat frequency to locate then zap them mid-flight.

    Reading through this thread I will just say there are two ways to learn. Vicariously, which is what has made the human species so successful. Or by doing, in which case you may need to repeat the failures of others. Both will get you to the same place, one just costs more and takes longer. A little knowledge can be dangerous when it breeds assumptions that focus your acceptance or denial of objective facts to support your opinion.

    I, too, started on the treatment free band wagon building my own Warre hives with windows. Had many of the same ideas you had. I quickly migrated to langstroths for various reasons and began using organic acids/thymol to help combat Varroa--and sometimes Apivar in the summer heat before winter bee production. I think treatment free can work but I currently do not have the space and isolation to make it work. So, rather than continually killing bees, I changed my practices. Think of it this way: If you had a dairy cow, you would not just turn her out into a pasture to fend for herself and expect to actually still get milk and calf from her. Trying it is a sure way to kill her--even on the most lush and permanent pasture. Things like milk fever (Ca deficiency when she first starts lactating) would kill her off w/out some kind of medical (Ca transfusion) therapy.

    Bees are better looked at as domesticated animals that need husbandry to produce what we want from them.

  6. #45
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    Quote Originally Posted by JClark View Post
    Wish we did. Would make a nice tool in our integrated vector control tool kit. Betting this idea came from the laser mosquito zapper the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation was funding development of. Keys in on wing beat frequency to locate then zap them mid-flight.

    Reading through this thread I will just say there are two ways to learn. Vicariously, which is what has made the human species so successful. Or by doing, in which case you may need to repeat the failures of others. Both will get you to the same place, one just costs more and takes longer. A little knowledge can be dangerous when it breeds assumptions that focus your acceptance or denial of objective facts to support your opinion.

    I, too, started on the treatment free band wagon building my own Warre hives with windows. Had many of the same ideas you had. I quickly migrated to langstroths for various reasons and began using organic acids/thymol to help combat Varroa--and sometimes Apivar in the summer heat before winter bee production. I think treatment free can work but I currently do not have the space and isolation to make it work. So, rather than continually killing bees, I changed my practices. Think of it this way: If you had a dairy cow, you would not just turn her out into a pasture to fend for herself and expect to actually still get milk and calf from her. Trying it is a sure way to kill her--even on the most lush and permanent pasture. Things like milk fever (Ca deficiency when she first starts lactating) would kill her off w/out some kind of medical (Ca transfusion) therapy.

    Bees are better looked at as domesticated animals that need husbandry to produce what we want from them.
    I hear you, but in your opinion, the 3 prong approach of VMEs, rapid regular sugar dusting and Drone cell culling is insufficient?

    Kim Flottum appears to be saying Drone cell culling alone is sufficient to control mite populations. So I would say that adding Rapid Sugar Dusting and VMEs to it would be even more effective.

    I really can't bring myself to consider chemical treatment, even if it is supposedly "soft" chemical treatment. Formic and oxalic acids are pretty nasty stuff.

    I wish I can breed a hybrid of my cerana with some mellifera. My cerana girls do not have varroa issues, but boy are they swarmy. They swarm at the slightest twitch. That's why I wanted to devise a way to manage them without disrupting them. That was one of the reasons for my Transparent Hive idea.

  7. #46
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    Regular sugar dusting is a feel good but ineffective and labor intensive tactic. See study by Jamie Ellis at the University of Florida.
    Drone brood culling does help slow down the mite increase but does not stop it or help with the mites brought in by robbing or drone drift.

  8. #47
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    One of the issues I see with drone cell culling as a primary means of mite control is that varroa populations and the influx from robbing activities are on an increase at a time when the bees are no longer producing drones. Pehaps it is different where you are, but there are very few drones being produced here in the States after mid-summer.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  9. #48
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    Quote Originally Posted by John Davis View Post
    Regular sugar dusting is a feel good but ineffective and labor intensive tactic. See study by Jamie Ellis at the University of Florida.
    Drone brood culling does help slow down the mite increase but does not stop it or help with the mites brought in by robbing or drone drift.
    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    One of the issues I see with drone cell culling as a primary means of mite control is that varroa populations and the influx from robbing activities are on an increase at a time when the bees are no longer producing drones. Pehaps it is different where you are, but there are very few drones being produced here in the States after mid-summer.
    You're both right, hence my VME proposal. VMEs are intended to knock off the phoretic mites riding on robbers and foragers. All three approaches must be used consistently to make a difference.

    Also, the sugar dusting I am talking about is the "rapid regular" sugar dusting advocated by Randy Oliver. It is sugar dusting every 4-5 days for the entire 15-20 days of varroa life cycle. I understand his reasoning for it. It is essentially to knock off varroa as soon as it emerges from the brood cell. If you do that, in theory you will knock off all the varroa. Those varroa that are still in brood cells should be knocked off on the 2nd dusting. Those still in the brood during your 2nd dusting should be knocked off on your third dusting and so forth.

    As far as Drone cell culling. Kim actually calls it Drone Trapping. The idea is to put in a drone frame to entice the queen to lay drones. This would entice the mites to enter these drone cells. Remove and cull these drone frames weekly, which would not allow the mites to hatch out. Put several of these drone frames and the queen will always lay drones and mites will always have a nice place to go. You are using drones to entice the mites to be trapped and culled. He said, it works and he does not have mite problems anymore.
    Last edited by JojoJaro; 03-20-2020 at 08:44 AM.

  10. #49
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    Quote Originally Posted by John Davis View Post
    ... labor intensive tactic.
    Yes dusting is labor intensive. But there may be a way to make your labor more efficient.

    Consider that you have say a couple of colonies. You can open the top super and put a screen. Then put your powdered sugar. Then, (don't laugh, I am truly serious) put a vibrator on it. (The kind that women use for fun.). Then walk away and take care of the 2nd colony. Repeat that for all your colonies. By the time you reach your last colony, the vibrator would have finish vibrating the powdered sugar on your first colony. If you do this procedure, you can dust a significant number of colonies in no time.

  11. #50
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    Folks, the only way to stop this kind of stupidity is to stop feeding the troll. The more you feed the troll, the stupider the suggestions will get.

  12. #51
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    Quote Originally Posted by JojoJaro View Post
    Yes dusting is labor intensive. But there may be a way to make your labor more efficient.

    Consider that you have say a couple of colonies. You can open the top super and put a screen. Then put your powdered sugar. Then, (don't laugh, I am truly serious) put a vibrator on it. (The kind that women use for fun.). Then walk away and take care of the 2nd colony. Repeat that for all your colonies. By the time you reach your last colony, the vibrator would have finish vibrating the powdered sugar on your first colony. If you do this procedure, you can dust a significant number of colonies in no time.
    Well, I asked. She said I can have her vibrator when I pry it from her cold, dead hands.
    5 Production colonies, 1 side by side 5 frame nuc for support- 7 working queens is all I want.

  13. #52
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    Quote Originally Posted by grozzie2 View Post
    Folks, the only way to stop this kind of stupidity is to stop feeding the troll. The more you feed the troll, the stupider the suggestions will get.
    An idea is stupid to those who are not smart enough to understand the implications of the idea.
    Last edited by JWPalmer; 03-20-2020 at 06:09 PM. Reason: Personal attack

  14. #53
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    JoJO
    How many hives did you bring threw winter so far this year?
    "oh well, let us stick to science. let them have their beliefs and intuitions!" -Medhat Nasr

  15. #54
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    JoJO
    How many hives did you bring threw winter so far this year?
    None, I did not bring any hives "threw" (sic) winter. We don't have winters.

    If you are interested in proper discussion, you should have read my responses and known this. I keep saying I'm in the tropics and I have cerana. That should have been enough to figure this out.

    If it is your intent to discuss, then discuss with civility. If not, then please go away. I do not have the time nor the inclination to argue with you.
    Last edited by JojoJaro; 03-20-2020 at 06:09 PM.

  16. #55
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    Quote Originally Posted by Grins View Post
    Well, I asked. She said I can have her vibrator when I pry it from her cold, dead hands.
    LOL...

    Well buy some extra ones. They're cheap at Alibaba or AliExpress, though I don't think they can ship it now.

  17. #56
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    Ha
    you did say that, but it was in the middle of a try rate of 4 back to back posts..guess I had tuned out by then..
    this is the kind of thing you need to put in your OP
    you hop on here asking for a spacing recommendation, and citing works on European honey bees how, could we even help you if we don't know your running much smaller bees of a type almost no one hear has kept that naturaly survives varroa
    "oh well, let us stick to science. let them have their beliefs and intuitions!" -Medhat Nasr

  18. #57
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    Jojojaro, have you tried a small trapeez at the entrance to the hive. Force the bees to swing across into the hive and the centrifugal force at the bottom of the arc will force the mites to drop off right off into the beaks of waiting chickens.

  19. #58
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    Ha
    you did say that, but it was in the middle of a try rate of 4 back to back posts..guess I had tuned out by then..
    this is the kind of thing you need to put in your OP
    you hop on here asking for a spacing recommendation, and citing works on European honey bees how, could we even help you if we don't know your running much smaller bees of a type almost no one hear has kept that naturaly survives varroa
    Then why the hostility? Quite obviously you were operating under incomplete information and yet you act like a know it all.

  20. #59
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim KS View Post
    Jojojaro, have you tried a small trapeez at the entrance to the hive. Force the bees to swing across into the hive and the centrifugal force at the bottom of the arc will force the mites to drop off right off into the beaks of waiting chickens.
    Great Idea, I will try it out. I will make sure to let you know of the results and give you due credit for your brilliant idea.

  21. #60
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    Default Re: Varroa Mitigation Entrance using Nail Brushes

    If it is your intent to discuss, then discuss with civility. If not, then please go away. I do not have the time nor the inclination to argue with you.
    Jojo, you are asking others to discuss your ideas with civility, yet you call those who disagree with you "stupid". Not exactly a page out of a Dale Carnagie's book. Beesource is a forum to learn how to keep bees, what works, what does not. If you choose not to learn from the mistakes of the thousands of beekeepers who have gone before you, then you are free to make those mistakes on your own.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

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