I'm convinced that OAV is a cure-all for mites. - Page 2
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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Wakefield, Rhode Island, USA
    Posts
    397

    Default Re: I'm convinced that OAV is a cure-all for mites.

    Much longer than 20 years I believe. Did you know that OA is critical to peristaltic action in humans? Look it up I try to balance my OAV use with drone removal too. I cannot bring myself to use Amitraz as an alternate.

    Around me the fear of "the gas" has a large following so many other "chemicals" are used locally. This will level the genetic playing field I would think. I'm looking for, hoping for drones that are resistant to Varroa. This will affect the ability of the Varroa life cycle to reproduce at high rates, a la Asian honey bees. It would be nice if the "boys" contributed a little more to colony success.
    Last edited by Robert Holcombe; 03-07-2020 at 05:49 PM.

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  3. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Butler Co, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    486

    Default Re: I'm convinced that OAV is a cure-all for mites.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonsl View Post
    This is probably not likely since OA exists in many of the plants that we eat and/or drink (tea for instance).
    I agree, but my point is it doesn't matter what is right. It just takes a headline with a pic of someone performing oav with a bee suit and a respirator on to scare consumers. And we all know that according to the state of California, all things cause cancer.

    Seen a post the other day that a bee box maker out there was having to mail notes to his customers due to wood being added as a carcinogen. I'm waiting untill they add water...
    Hindsight is 20/10, not 20/20...
    After the fact, I always know what didn't work.

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    kincaid,il.
    Posts
    28

    Default Re: I'm convinced that OAV is a cure-all for mites.

    I first saw the Fat Bee Man use it, so I got some O A, and made a vaporizer out of copper pipe. I put OA in the nut at the end, and heated it with a torch and pliers, and I had a sticky board. The mite drop was around one hundred. I was new and had only used powdered sugar to treat. I took the sticky board to the bee meeting, and I thought the old timers were going to tar and feather me. First, it wasn't approved in Illinois, and I was told it killed queens. Now, its the go-to-treatment, except for treatment-free keepers in the club.

  5. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    5,015

    Default Re: I'm convinced that OAV is a cure-all for mites.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bdfarmer555 View Post
    I'm waiting untill they add water...
    That dihydrogen monoxide is nasty stuff. It kills many people every year.

    Not aware of any deaths from Oxalic Acid. So there you have it. OA is safer than water.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  6. #25
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Wise county,Texas
    Posts
    339

    Default Re: I'm convinced that OAV is a cure-all for mites.

    Quote Originally Posted by JWPalmer View Post
    That dihydrogen monoxide is nasty stuff. It kills many people every year.

    Not aware of any deaths from Oxalic Acid. So there you have it. OA is safer than water.

    So,,,,,,that doesn't bode well for OA dribble....
    “Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark, professionals built the Titanic”

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Louisville, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,584

    Default

    I also use OAV exclusively. The only time I lost bees to mites was the winter I used a heatgun vaporizer. Now I have a johno's easyvap. Works like a champ.

  8. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Somerset, NJ
    Posts
    487

    Default Re: I'm convinced that OAV is a cure-all for mites.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bdfarmer555 View Post
    I agree, but my point is it doesn't matter what is right. It just takes a headline with a pic of someone performing oav with a bee suit and a respirator on to scare consumers. And we all know that according to the state of California, all things cause cancer.

    Seen a post the other day that a bee box maker out there was having to mail notes to his customers due to wood being added as a carcinogen. I'm waiting untill they add water...
    The problem with declaring too many things carcinogenic is that after a while people start ignoring any warning, including for the really bad stuff like benzene.

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Louisville, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,584

    Default

    Checked my furthest outyard today. All are healthy.
    22 for 22 this year.
    Gave them a quick treatment. I'll check the inserts for a mite count.
    If needed I'll give them a round of oav.
    Send them in to summer clean.

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Covington County, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    1,638

    Default Re: I'm convinced that OAV is a cure-all for mites.

    My experience is different. I use OAV. In fact, used it on several fly-back splits last night. However, I have found that in my area, with my hives, OAV in series will not sufficiently curb my mite loads coming out of summer and into Fall. I have capped brood 12 months a year. Apparently, Jamie Ellis, who's lab is not very far from me in Gainesville, Florida, has discovered the same thing I have -- even when forcing a brood break. https://academic.oup.com/jee/advance...dFrom=fulltext. There is no way to declare a cure-ALL when ALL are not similarly situated as to climate, density, etc. I am glad this works as an exclusive treatment for many of you. But I caution your readers to pay particular attention to your climate zones and settings and proceed with caution.

    If I used OAV exclusively, in my area, I would have dead hives. Ask me how I know this.

  11. #30
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,493

    Default Re: I'm convinced that OAV is a cure-all for mites.

    psm1212;

    How many days apart and how many repetitions constitutes your treatment? I am in a very light background of other peoples mites so have had no problems taking down my own mite levels.

    Would you consider influx from outside sources to be the reason for your less than positive results?
    Frank

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Covington County, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    1,638

    Default Re: I'm convinced that OAV is a cure-all for mites.

    Frank:

    All of that depends on circumstances. The way I split my hives in the spring creates a broodless split for one box on Day 1, and a broodless split for the 2nd box on Day 21. So I do a single OAV in the spring of broodless hives.

    Back when I was equally convinced (and desperately wanted it to be true) that OAV would be my exclusive treatment, I treated in all kinds of series variations. 5tx/3days. 6tx/7days. 5tx/5days. And many more. I almost always treat at night, after work, so timing is not a big deal for me.

    I am not claiming that I got NO benefit. I think I got decent results, but I still lost hives to mites.

    I now treat with OAV in spring (as described above). The last week of July or first week of August, I install Apivar strips. After 10 weeks (off label) I remove the strips and do alcohol washes. If I have a mite threshold over 1%, I then do a series of OAV and retest.

    Then, almost out of superstition, I always do a final one-shot OAV between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Just hoping to catch them with little brood.

    As to mite pressure from neighbors, I don't know of any beekeepers in my area, but we do have a fair amount of bees that live in the woods. (Likely populated from lost swarms of mine over the years). So it is possible that I am getting mite influx from those unmanaged hives.

    But I think the largest problem is that my hives start brooding up in late December and early January. Drone brood is capped by late January. They are swarming by the end of February, if no control measures are taken. They keep a fairly large brood nest until around November, when it briefly decreases to just a couple of frames. Then the season starts all over again in late December.

    Secondly, I am not convinced that OAV has any appreciable extended effect beyond the initial 15 minutes "Flash" treatment. I know that many claim that mites are killed for days after as bees remove OA crystals from the hive. I am not convinced and I have not seen scientific studies that prove this.

  13. #32
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,493

    Default Re: I'm convinced that OAV is a cure-all for mites.

    You certainly have a much shorter time with total shutdown of brooding. That likely has an effect on virus titre which depends on a longer period mite free before it drops. I think sometimes we focus on the mites damage to individual bees and lose site of the virus factor of the whole equation Doing scattershot broodless brakes probably not near as effective as simultaneous, whole yard breaks. Drones still sleep around wherever, and even silent robbing hampers things.

    I dont buy into the vision of there being identifiable crystals of OA that the bees can latch onto and take to the dump, so not much faith in lasting effects either.

    Perhaps a combination with the slow release of OA in glycerine might be effective. The fellows in New Zealand are throwing everything but the kitchen sink at the mites and it is an ongoing struggle. Their situation has the commmon factor of little or no broodless time. The long lasting release period of strips like Apivar certainly seem to have an advantage. For people with hundreds or thousands of hives though it is a whack of money.
    Frank

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,247

    Default Re: I'm convinced that OAV is a cure-all for mites.

    The concept of lasting effects from OAV is not one I have seen proof of and have always wondered about it. I do admit that I have repeated it without really thinking it through. I do not believe the bees pick up the crystals and move them out of the hive. I believe the process of walking around the hive and rubbing against them is enough to dislodge them and make them fall to the bottom of the hive with the rest of the trash. We are fortunate in my area that we have a long broodless period and a winter shot of OAV works wonders for knocking down the numbers. All mite protocols have a place in the arsenal. Figuring out what works best in your area and at what time of the year is the real trick to making them work well.

  15. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,973

    Default Re: I'm convinced that OAV is a cure-all for mites.

    I've often wondered about the long-term effects of drinking cow's milk (as it contains a mammalian growth hormone) - but as there has not been any suggestion (I know of) that it might be linked to stimulating the growth of cancerous cells - why even consider this seriously ? Likewise Oxalic Acid - if there ever comes a time when there's some evidence-based suggestions that it's long-term use poses a problem - that's the time to start developing concerns about it. Otherwise the potential number of things to worry about in life becomes more-or-less infinite.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  16. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    119

    Default Re: I'm convinced that OAV is a cure-all for mites.

    Quote Originally Posted by patncin View Post
    I first saw the Fat Bee Man use it, so I got some O A, and made a vaporizer out of copper pipe. I put OA in the nut at the end, and heated it with a torch and pliers, and I had a sticky board. The mite drop was around one hundred. I was new and had only used powdered sugar to treat. I took the sticky board to the bee meeting, and I thought the old timers were going to tar and feather me. First, it wasn't approved in Illinois, and I was told it killed queens. Now, its the go-to-treatment, except for treatment-free keepers in the club.
    If you like OAV you are going to love this little baby from the UK.See web page attached.
    https://bridge-cottage.com/store

  17. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Summit NJ USA
    Posts
    40

    Default Re: I'm convinced that OAV is a cure-all for mites.

    Just another data point: I'm a backyard beekeeper in his fifth year. I lost one of two hives in the first winter. I then started with OA, and haven't lost an over-wintered hive since. I don't connect the two. I've used formic and other treatments during the season, as well as sequential OA treatments when brood are in place. I also leave lots of stores in the hives over winter.

    Just adding to the data pile.

  18. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Dundas, ON, Canada
    Posts
    66

    Default Re: I'm convinced that OAV is a cure-all for mites.

    Quote Originally Posted by b2bnz View Post
    If you like OAV you are going to love this little baby from the UK.See web page attached.
    https://bridge-cottage.com/store
    Awesome, thanks for the info! Shouldn't be too hard to make it at home, I hope and then I could vaporize through the top entrance instead of the bottom, plus this also would work for nucs that don't have slot at the bottom.

  19. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Windsor, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: I'm convinced that OAV is a cure-all for mites.

    I've had a different experience. I caught a swarm last year and after summer solstice I purposely killed the queen forcing the bees to have a brood break and create a new queen. I treated with OA using Johno's easy vap about 4 week after the queen was killed. At this time the hive should have been broodless so OA should have been highly effective. The bees were successful in creating a queen and she was laying and creating worker brood. Things were looking good. Then in Aug. I did 4 treatments of OA 5 days apart. At this point I thought the war was won and the bees would easily survive into next year. They died in Dec. I opened the hive and did an autopsy on some of the dead bees left in the hive. I counted about 19 mites in 89 bees. This hive obviously died of mites but I'm very puzzled as to why and why my mitigation efforts failed. Any ideas would be appreciated.

  20. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Ridgecrest, CA USA
    Posts
    17

    Default

    In a few years it will be ineffective against the other Asian mite when it gets here. Thermal is effective and just as cheap.

  21. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Ridgecrest, CA USA
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mchrist152 View Post
    I've had a different experience. I caught a swarm last year and after summer solstice I purposely killed the queen forcing the bees to have a brood break and create a new queen. I treated with OA using Johno's easy vap about 4 week after the queen was killed. At this time the hive should have been broodless so OA should have been highly effective. The bees were successful in creating a queen and she was laying and creating worker brood. Things were looking good. Then in Aug. I did 4 treatments of OA 5 days apart. At this point I thought the war was won and the bees would easily survive into next year. They died in Dec. I opened the hive and did an autopsy on some of the dead bees left in the hive. I counted about 19 mites in 89 bees. This hive obviously died of mites but I'm very puzzled as to why and why my mitigation efforts failed. Any ideas would be appreciated.
    Your bees went out robbing and brought in more.

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