Bad Day
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Thread: Bad Day

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Spring, Texas
    Posts
    300

    Default Bad Day

    It was a bad day today when I went out to check my two hives.

    One looks like they got into some bad Poison yesterday as there were a lot of dead bees in front of the hive.

    I took the hive apart and cleaned an inch of dead bees in the bottom inside of the hive plus all the dead ones on the ground.

    I took the two deeps apart and placed all the frames with brood in one box and the open honey and pollen in the other.

    I found the queen and see appeared to be well but did find one frame that the wees were running around like the ones dying out side. Added together there was probably 7 frames of capped brood on these frames. I also left the supper in place and added a Bee man feeder on top and put out a gallon of sugar water to give the bees some food.


    I was scared that the honey and pollen might still have a lot of the poison in the honey or pollen. I was planning to tomorrow scrape all the frames and wash them And bury the pollen and honey.

    Would you try to keep the honey and pollen for use or feel the safest thing to do is get rid of it.

    I plan to check the feeder and then look again in a week unless I find another ton of dead bees tomorrow.image3.jpeg
    Last edited by JimD; 03-03-2020 at 09:45 PM.

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Spring, Texas
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    300

    Default Re: Bad Day

    image1.jpegimage2.jpegimage0.jpegimage4.jpeg

    Took a while to fig out how to download pxs.

    My best hive halved if it survives the night.
    Jim

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Decatur / Cullman, also. 35603
    Posts
    882

    Default Re: Bad Day

    I'm no expert on this.but, questions to ask.. it's early spring for some folks. Are the bees doing spring cleaning? How is the hive populated since you found the dead bees? Any chemical spraying going on near tou 1 mi. +/- ? I had similar but not as bad. All looked good, and then poof. A pile of bees in front of hive. I exlected the worse. But, all seems fine and hive population looks good. Im thinking with the warm spells, and allot of rain in my area, then cool weather, off and on. Maybe they just cleaned out all the dead from this crazy no so much of a winter. Mostly cool, and wet here. I'm not sure id.chunk all the pollen, and.honey stores. There is probably nothing wrong with it. Also,.is the hive low on resources. If so, add a pollen sub, and feed them. I open feed about 50 yards from my apiary. I have 5 hives now, all popping. Let me know about above, as im curious. Rich

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    5,409

    Default Re: Bad Day

    look up the information here and send some samples, no use guessing.

    http://bvs-inc.us/
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
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    5,036

    Default Re: Bad Day

    Jim, normally I would be the first to discount the poisoning idea, but Holy Crap! It looks like someone emptied a can of Raid on the hive. Chances are any capped honey is still ok, but I would give the all fresh syrup and pollen patty just in case. Were you able to salvage at least some of the brood? This is one of those rare situations where a heat source would be a good idea to try and save any brood that was close to emerging. I would also have put them in a different box so there was no chance of any residue contamination, assuming that poisoning was the cause.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    West Bath, Maine, United States
    Posts
    2,754

    Default Re: Bad Day

    Agree, not winter kill. 7 frames of brood did not come from dead bees .
    Bees dying inside is not winter kill.
    Wildbranch is right, you need to find out if it is a hauled in pesticide or a neighborly night visit. Test may show that.

    It was months before my queens stopped dying, none of the hives made winter.
    It is hard to design a safety net that some will not use as a hammock.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Spring, Texas
    Posts
    300

    Default Re: Bad Day

    Both hives were in great shape last week when I did a deep dive on both. I had left a lot of extra honey that I saw a month or so ago when I peeked. Last week that was all capped brood. The bees turned honey into brood. I had 9 and 8 near solid frames of capped brood a week ago and this was the stronger hive. A lot of the dead bees are from some that hatched.

    Last Friday we had one day of winter got down to 40 and the rest of the time it is 60-75 and spring is here. We did not have a winter here. Probably 7 days the bees could not fly. Our winter was wind/rain, cold 38-45 in the morning, Cool the next day then back up to 60's or hotter but on most days the bees were flying over 50+ degrees which was most afternoons.

    I looked at 20 frames when I took the hive apart and kept 8 frames with assorted capped brood in a new box and put the rest in another box. Lot of pollen and open honey in the discarded box. I gambled and kept the super that I had put on the box last fall most capped just for some feed insurance then dropped a beeman feeder on top and fed near a gallon of sugar water since the bees have no stores.

    I did not really look for a lot of larva and such but did see some. I did find the queen and she appeared to be in good shape one of the frames and another had non normal bee movement similar to the ones dying. The other hive has a bright yellow queen and this one is more orange. I have all sorts of feral bees around me and I will probably requeen this year but the bees appear mite resistant now if they were just shb resistant. The are hard workers but still fairly aggressive bees.

    I am guessing that someone sprayed a blooming fruit tree or such last weekend. This hive was putting out nearly 2x the foraging bees as the other hive that had no deaths.

    I looked this morning and there are 50 dead bees around I can not see inside the hive either on the base. I would expect that many dead bees with a complete redo and frame shake but it is rainy here this morning and not a lot of movement yet.

    I had a kill last month when things started to bloom about pint+ jar between both hives one morning. The fun of living in and near subdivisions. I got a little over 20 gallons last from the two hives plus I did some splits for fun and gave them away.


    Salty - we need to talk. I think the old dogs can learn and do new tricks but the medical research seems that the real problem is really the fact that old dogs just like old married guys can not hear the commands to do the trick after 40 or more years of marriage.

    What are you all doing with the excess wax? I will bury all the possibly contaminated wax and honey but still have some to do something with or give away in the Spring Area.


    Thanks for the help. Jiim

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    West Bath, Maine, United States
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    2,754

    Default Re: Bad Day

    In the end, next spring, I let the ants do a thorough clean out of the frames and used them without visible problems. It was an early August hit, shook the wet nectar out and left the solid honey as I believed it was a hard very recent hit.
    Healthy one day dead the next. Moths invaded overnight and were dying inside the next day. Not hard to diagnosis. Fed them hard to dilute. Was not a successful save, just a slower death. I no longer keep bees outside my door, miss that. You are earlier in the season. Have another place to go?

    The continuing queen deaths I attribute to foragers going back for more.

    (I still hear words, just turns out to be different ones than were actually spoken.)
    It is hard to design a safety net that some will not use as a hammock.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Northeast PA
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    490

    Default Re: Bad Day

    Can you please describe in more detail your surrounding area? Is it a city?

  11. #10

    Default Re: Bad Day

    If you have multiple hives and one found something toxic….it is pretty usual for all to find it..
    If you hadn’t said that they had honey remaining I would’ve guessed starvation.
    I would like to see some photos of the frames.
    Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. - Emerson

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    syracuse n.y.
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    Default Re: Bad Day

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    If you have multiple hives and one found something toxic….it is pretty usual for all to find it..
    If you hadn’t said that they had honey remaining I would’ve guessed starvation.
    I would like to see some photos of the frames.
    I'm with beemandan I have never had a pesticide kill, where one hive got into it, the other's didn't.
    mike syracuse ny
    Whatever you subsidize you get more of. Ronald Reagan

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Spring, Texas
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    300

    Default Re: Bad Day

    I have had them before with minor kills with both or one hive taking a hit but never a disaster except for last year when there was a swarm on the top of the overhang and the mosquito sprayer came by and killed most of the bees that were out side and exposed and the hive was 100 yards from the street.

    I cleaned up boxes yesterday and looked today and there are dying bees falling off the landing board now.

    I live in Spring which is between Houston and the Woodlands. There are both subdivisions and fields around me along with some woods.

    This was the stronger hive but both were in great shape last week.

    Not sure whether to go back in the box after cleaning it up on Tuesday or wait and see. I swept all the bees off this morning but have them piling up right now or running off the landing board and piling up below.

    Ideas?

    Jim
    .

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
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    Suffolk, VA
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    4,228

    Default Re: Bad Day

    Quote Originally Posted by JimD View Post
    image1.jpegimage2.jpegimage0.jpegimage4.jpeg

    Took a while to fig out how to download pxs.

    My best hive halved if it survives the night.
    Jim


    Just so we're clear, the picture in file "image1.jpg" was that taken as the state of the colony when you found it, or was that taken after you opened up the colony and discarded the dead bees?
    Horseshoe Point Honey -- http://localvahoney.com/

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Spring, Texas
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    300

    Default Re: Bad Day

    The three captures are of the dead bees around the hive at first look. The sign picture is a lot of the dead bees out front picked up and the plastic container has the bees that were dead inside the hive on the bottom board.

    I cleaned it up kept the one deep and supper and I still have dying bees today. More than yesterday.
    there has been a lot more die today.

    Sad

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Covington County, Alabama, USA
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    1,638

    Default Re: Bad Day

    What pesticides would be being applied at this time of year in Spring, Texas? What is even in the ground at this time of year?

    You think you could have a neighbor that really does not want bees in the neighborhood?

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Spring, Texas
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    300

    Default Re: Bad Day

    It is full spring here about 2-3 weeks early. Oak trees are green and dropping pollen. Clover and other plants are blooming.

    In this subdivision we had no dearth to speak of and the bees were able to get out all but about 10 days at most this winter. Rest of the time our cold was norther 38-44 then warming up to 55 and more most cold days around lunch.

    The neighborhoods had something blooming most of the time.

    Just a guess it was someone spraying an early blooming fruit tree or similar as it was 80+ Sunday and Monday.

    I cleaned up best I could and went to one clean box and kept 10 frames with brood but I still have dead bees flopping out and dead today.

    Guess the good news is it did not kill my other hive.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Spring, Texas
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    300

    Default Re: Bad Day

    What do you do???

    I walked out and it is 60 degrees and the one hive is going crazy working and the other has very little action except for bees running out the hive and diving off the landing board to join the bees on the ground dying. I fig the working bees are all dead and I have mostly new bees which may or may not be ok.
    ____________________________
    I had bees for 30years and wanted to get back into beekeeping in 2018: I have posts up from 2018 where a jerk sold me two nucs from South Houston/ Pearland area that he swore were valid nucs with laying queens that year that he had split earlier in the year. He lied because of what I found. little later I asked him to replace the bad box. He just laughed and said it was my problem.

    I had picked them up ( and did not ck them till I got home because I believed him ) and found that neither nucs had eggs and no brood under 6 OR 8 Days old.

    One hive had working bees and about 12 days later a new queen started laying out of luck. ONLY

    The other hive acted just like this poisoned hive today. No flying bees, bees that were crazy buzzing and running off the landing board and did not fly to a much less degree.

    The bees in the box looked ok but docile, plus NO flying bees other than the divers. I was scared of diseased bees so I put a cup of gasoline in the hive in case of infection after discussing this with the board. WAS it just a poisoned box instead of disease???


    What I think now was I got a nuc that had been poisoned, not infected and the other box was just some frames thrown into a nuc box and I was lucky to get a new queen. So much on believing people.
    __________________________

    You wonder just how long they keep dying? I realize that most of the foraging bees are dead.

    It is sad to walk out there and see it because when it warms up here they come running out. 500 yesterday but it is just warming up today.

    Jim

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    10,381

    Default Re: Bad Day

    To me that is like no death by poison event i have ever seen, that the bees collected from sprayed plants. Looks more like someone sprayed poison directly into the hive.

    Unless it is due to some other cause such as starvation.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Scott county, Arkansas, Usa
    Posts
    1,692

    Default Re: Bad Day

    After reading threads such as this one, I would set up a game cam if I lived in town with my bees.

    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  21. #20
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    wilmington,nc
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    67

    Default

    I second the recommendation to set up a game cam.

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