A VERY hot hive - what next? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: A VERY hot hive - what next?

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    LJ

    BTW - I don't do 'macho'. When I was in my 20's yes, but not these days.
    Just a cranking ya LJ!

    Yep, it makes a difference on how you handle them but then some bees are a lot easier to work with. My sons bees are far from the worst but they are a long ways from what mine are. He had quite a few one year that not only were quick on the draw but were runny and drippy. Forget about me ever finding a queen in there without a shaker box.

    There are no ferals and very few surrounding bees where I am so it is not hard to keep mine quite true to to the breeders line. He continuously culls for gentle queens to graft from.
    Frank

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: A VERY hot hive - what next?

    In terms of unusually defensive behavior, I find that if comb gets ripped or broken (usually burr comb) and an amount of honey is released, then the hive can be much more defensive.

    Another cause can be no or little flow at the time.

  4. #23
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    Default Re: A VERY hot hive - what next?

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    Personally, I wouldn't describe a few stings as being either vicious or a VERY hot hive - after all, your friend was stealing their honey ...

    If that colony is ok in all other respects - i.e. not over-defensive during the season (meaning unprovoked stinging some distance from the hive) and are reasonably well-behaved during routine inspections, I'd be inclined to accept that as borderline behaviour, and dress accordingly when harvesting from that particular colony - just in case they should be having a bad day.

    Much depends of course on what actually constituted 'vicious', and how your friend was handling those bees at the time. Sometimes it just pays to come back another day.
    LJ

    PS - any forest fires in your locality ? I hear you guys are having it rough at the moment.
    It is a HOT hive. Only a few stings thanks to a full beesuit and gloves. I gather it is not a nice hive to work.
    About the fires. Thanks for asking. It has been hot here and the fires quite close. Very dry here but at this point, no fires.
    The fires are further South and it is a very bad situation. 2019 was the hottest and dryest year on record here - since 1910
    from the Bee House -http://ecologicalsolutions.com.au/bees/?page_id=8
    40 years - +/- 20 H - TF - Subtropical

  5. #24
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    Default Re: A VERY hot hive - what next?

    Let's hope your area remain safe. The pictures we're getting over here show a truly horrific situation - people being rescued off the beaches and so on. FWIW - you're in our thoughts.

    Completely opposite situation here in the UK - half the country is underwater. Fields around me have been waterlogged for some weeks now - the last cauliflower crop couldn't be accessed through the mud and was left to rot where it stood. But no threat to life, so I'd much rather see that than wild-fires out of control.

    'best
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  6. #25
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    Default Re: A VERY hot hive - what next?

    Quote Originally Posted by max2 View Post
    A friend of mine was taking honey off his hives. One strong hive ( 10 frame FD brood and 10 frame FD super) was pretty well full of honey but, so he told me , they were vicious and he copped a few stings.
    I know what you will say:" re-queen"
    The problem is that he is not sure if he can find the queen in such a strong hive. Indeed it is easier said then done even for an experienced beekeeper.
    In the past when I had to deal with a similar hive I simply split the hive into two. Easier to deal with fewer bees.
    Any other ideas?
    the way I use is to split them up, Smaller parts are in general more manageable, Also I have found older bees to be more Hot, Vrs the nurse bees.
    So I would either buy/obtain a queen. Place it in a box at the original location/ release per your methods, carry the hive away 20-30 yards. could also use a NUC queen and frames, placed in the original location. SO basically peel off the field bees. When placing the origional hive on the new stand, separate it with an excluder between the boxes. go back in 7 days, the half with "eggs" has the Queen, the other half can be newspaper combined with the original stand location, check for queen/eggs in the origional location, prior to combine as you are in it any way. 7 days should render any larvae to old to make a queen from, wait another day or 2 if you feel 4 day old larvae are too close for comfort.
    now you are down to one box of mean bees with a queen. Go thru the box slowly looking for the queen, pinch if found, split the frames if you cannot find her first pass again with 1/2 above and 1/2 below the excluder. in 8 or so days go in and find the 1/2 with eggs , repeat as necessary. do not allow the old queen to spawn any cells. add the frames you confirmed queen less to other hives the original or a NUC. I would likely label it "split material" wait till I had 3 or 4 queen cells and 1/4 it giving each 1/4 a ripe cell. If you could not find the queen, the one with eggs in 5 days has the queen as the ripe cell would take longer to produce eggs. good luck some are a bugger to find.
    GG

  7. #26
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    Default Re: A VERY hot hive - what next?

    Lots of good ideas - keep them coming!!
    from the Bee House -http://ecologicalsolutions.com.au/bees/?page_id=8
    40 years - +/- 20 H - TF - Subtropical

  8. #27
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    Default Re: A VERY hot hive - what next?

    Similar to Gray Gooses suggestion:

    Set up a new box with frames of foundation beside the old hive.
    Place a new Queen in a cage in the new box.
    Move the super (with the bees) from the old hive to the new one.
    Put the old hive brood box on a trolley and move it 10-20 meters away.

    Give it a day or two, many of the field bees (most defensive) will fly back to the old location and go into the new hive. If needed, move the old hive a couple of times the first couple of days.

    After a couple of days it should be a lot easier to go through the old hive.
    If still difficult, take one frame at a time and check throughly for the old Queen and then shake off bees in front of the new hive. Once the old Queen has been found and killed. Then the old box can be put on the new box. (So it will be two brood boxes).

    Once older defensive bees have died off, the brood frames can be moved back into one box.

  9. #28
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    Default Re: A VERY hot hive - what next?

    I tend not to have hot hives these days, but on the odd occasion I can't find an unmarked Queen in a BIG colony - even after 2 or 3 tries - I resort to the method already described: move the hive a good distance to one side and put an empty box in it's place (to give the foragers somewhere to call 'home' for an hour or two); divide the remaining colony in half and separate the halves by (say) 10 feet, then watch for signs of queenlessness. Repeat that division with the queenright half until the number of frames with the queen is down to five or less.
    If the queen is still not visible, I then shake off all the bees into the hopper of a Marburg Box (a QX between two brood boxes would do the same job) with the bee-less frames inside it. It's then just a matter of time (and the odd puff of smoke to speed things up) before Herself becomes visible in the hopper amongst the drones. I then catch and mark that elusive lady with blue paint (the only colour I use) to ensure that this performance doesn't need to be repeated.
    In your case of course it would be a case of the Size 10 boot or a vodka bath rather than a dab of paint.
    LJ

    PS - there was a rather interesting NZ paper in which re-queening is/was done 'on the fly' within production colonies by getting a new queen mated either above or below the main brood box, and then letting the new queen take over the hive without removing the older queen first. This allows re-queening to occur without loss of colony momentum - I'll dig out the reference if it's of interest.
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  10. #29
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    Default Re: A VERY hot hive - what next?

    The bigest problem I can see here is "DRONES", this behavior could be spread though out the apiary.

    When this problem arises, after I am sure that it was not a "one off".

    This is how I deal with them, first I close up the hive, to retain the guard bees, I then remove the roof, place a queen excluder on top of brood box or super with newspaper, then add a shim with entrance, finaly a strong hive of bees with quiet queen. My initial thought was the will kill the queen in the top hive, but this has never happened

    This has worked every time I have done it(5 or 6 times) in 35 years, when the bees were so bad that extermination was the only alternative
    The principle is that the bees from the bottom go up and out, on return stay in the top hive, and the bottom hive becomes devoid of bees, the bottom queen stops laying, no drones can get out of this hive so the problem is solved.
    I takes about 4 weeks and there is no need initially to open up the hive to look for the queen and get stung in the process

  11. #30
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    Default Re: A VERY hot hive - what next?

    Great clip Bernard! I consider my bees relatively calm and won’t stand for a hot hive. But banging the frame on the box? That’d be opening the hurt locker lol.
    Rod

  12. #31
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    Default Re: A VERY hot hive - what next?

    PS - there was a rather interesting NZ paper in which re-queening is/was done 'on the fly' within production colonies by getting a new queen mated either above or below the main brood box, and then letting the new queen take over the hive without removing the older queen first. This allows re-queening to occur without loss of colony momentum - I'll dig out the reference if it's of interest.
    Yes, definitely of interest
    Last edited by JWPalmer; 01-04-2020 at 12:45 PM.
    from the Bee House -http://ecologicalsolutions.com.au/bees/?page_id=8
    40 years - +/- 20 H - TF - Subtropical

  13. #32
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    Default Re: A VERY hot hive - what next?

    I am going into my second year. My problem is that what I think might be a hot hive, might very well be not?? Someone mentioned that his or her definition of a hot hive was that the bees were aggressive when just entering the apiary. This is certainly not the case with me. With the current warm weather conditions here in New Jersey, and watching cleansing flights, I can get right up to the landing boards of my two hives and the bees do not even know I am there. However, on the one hive which I think might be hot, when checking the sugar brick on top, when I open the cover, the bees are on me like white on rice?? No smoke. This hive has bee rather difficult since I re-queened in early June and the hive took off through the summer. I used a Bee Weaver Queen from Texas, and have since learned from many sources that this might be my problem?? When I say rather difficult, I mean the bees are very aggressive even with copious amounts of smoke. Inspections are conducted under a gray cloud of bees?? I am okay with it, but it is rather uncomfortable? So is this a hot hive?? Watching video after video on YouTube and watching countless inspections, I personally would consider this a hot hive. But I am a newbee keeper and just might not know the difference???

  14. #33
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    Default Re: A VERY hot hive - what next?

    Sounds like mine, I have 12 and can work them all easily till the last two, as soon as your near their on you. I requeened one in October, hopefully it's nicer in the Spring.
    NCSBA Certified Beekeeper - my Youtube Vlog
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BackyardBeesNC

  15. #34
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    Default Re: A VERY hot hive - what next?

    Quote Originally Posted by max2 View Post
    Yes, definitely of interest
    Requeening honey bee colonies without dequeening, I.W. Forster, 1972
    https://doi.org/10.1080/00288233.1972.10421270

    ABSTRACT
    Two-storeyed colonies can be successfully requeened by raising the original queen and the brood nest above a division board, rearing a young queen from an introduced cell in the bottom storey, and then reuniting both storeys when most advantageous. There is no need to find queens, and colony manipulation is reduced to a minimum.

    RESULTS
    When those [divided colonies] (*) were united, without dequeening, 95% of the young queens from method A survived, and 92% from method B. The survival rate of queens from introduced cells after this union was similar for colonies headed by first-, second-, and third-year original queens, and there was no difference between queens raised by methods A and B (**).

    (*) Mating success was between 72% and 84% (apart from 'usual mating failures' there was some toxic nectar in the area)

    (**) A & B refer to the emergence & mating of virgin queens either above or below the original brood box.


    I assume the above method works due to the bees preferring a brand new queen as opposed to one with some mileage on the clock - thus suggesting that she's a supersedure queen, and that therefore there's probably something 'not quite right' with the queen they already have.

    Although this technique is aimed at maximising honey production, I see no reason why it shouldn't work to replace queens under any circumstances.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  16. #35
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    Default Re: A VERY hot hive - what next?

    I have requeened a number of times using the Snelgrove board separation to create a queen in one part of the hive then pull the division board and let the two queens work it out. I have only done it a few times with marked queen to verify the young one succeeded. I think Snelgrove suggested the young one is the survivor in 85% or more of the cases.
    Conjecture is that the younger queen is more flexible and quicker with her stinger.

    The first few times I use newspaper to combine but then got complacent and just pulled the division board.
    Frank

  17. #36
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    Default Re: A VERY hot hive - what next?

    Bernhard, Sie ist eine schönste Königin.

    I just got around to watching the video.

    Not so sure I could tap a frame on the box and not have some bees want to know what I was up to. Maybe even express their displeasure?
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  18. #37
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    Default Re: A VERY hot hive - what next?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oneshoo View Post
    No smoke. I used a Bee Weaver Queen from Texas, and have since learned from many sources that this might be my problem?? When I say rather difficult, I mean the bees are very aggressive even with copious amounts of smoke. Inspections are conducted under a gray cloud of bees??
    No smoke or too much smoke both can raise some stingers. However, yes Bee Weaver queens tend to be the “hottest” in all of my yards. Sounds like you know what a hot hive is
    Please excuse me, I am now free to go manage & treat ;)
    my ladies the best way I know how.

  19. #38
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    Default Re: A VERY hot hive - what next?

    At the end of the season and the honey flow, and a dry dearth period is starting, you will often find that the bees become a lot more defensive. So would you if you caught someone stealing your honey and you knew that there was no more out there to collect.
    If you have a strong queen and plenty of brood going into winter, good on you and your bees. Be Happy!

  20. #39
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    West Valley, NY
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    Default

    He can let them swarm and re-queen them at that time and remove the queen cells.
    Catch the swarm and re-queen them too

  21. #40
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    Default Re: A VERY hot hive - what next?

    So lets say I am able to find and pinch the Queen in the hot hive. How long would one wait to introduce a purchased mated Queen to the hot hive??

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