OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Vauxhall, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    350

    Default OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Hello All,

    Let me start this thread for users, interested people or just any question on my OA Vaporizer.

    This is what I am talking about IMG_8053.jpgand if it is not proper, I or the moderators can remove this thread. The for sale ad I started should not have any message or comments, so I see this as the only way to get any public feedback, questions & comments.

    Best regards, Joerg K.
    Summ Summ Bienchen summ herum

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  3. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    4,263

    Default Re: OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Joerg, don't get discouraged. You are offering this vaporizer in the for sale forum at a time when those that needed one this year have already purchased one, and those that might want one next year are putting it off until after Christmas. And of course there is a little competition in this market... Good luck with your sales. The band heater style vaporizer is far superior to the wand/pan style if 120v is avalable.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Grand Rapids MI USA
    Posts
    1,586

    Default Re: OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    What JW says, hang in there. Also remember, word of mouth is going to get out there too. I always direct people to the site for things like this.
    Rod

  5. #4
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Vauxhall, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    350

    Default Re: OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Thanks for the advise. Why would I be discouraged? I am selling good and don't need to live of it. The reason I posted here is the reduced cost if compared to eBay where I pay 11-13% (without any 'special' marketing options) and that normally comes out of the buyers pocket. I am happy if my buyers are!

    Joerg

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    4,263

    Default Re: OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    I misread your post to mean that you were not getting the chatter on Beesource that you had hoped for. Glad tht your sales are doing well.

    Mit der Welt, alles in Ordnung ist.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Idaho, USA
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Is the tube low enough for this to treat under a reduced entrance that may be only 1/4 inch high with a landing board or would that make the unit point downward too much?

  8. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,045

    Default Re: OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    It is just so easy to pop a 1/4 inch hole wherever needed. I certainly don't worry about the aesthetics of a 1/4 hole. I have worm holes in quite a few hives anyways.

    I have been using a hole in the rear of the bottom board but using cement blocks for base that is flush with rear of the hive, it is no problem flipping the unit to discharge the OA from the cap. My setup would not work with my unit on extended landing boards but I would not choose to treat from the front.

    I use these pairs of tapered strips to put an entrance wherever I need it without altering boxes. With these you could blow the OA in between the upper and lower hive bodies. Only takes a few seconds to slip them in.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Frank

  9. #8
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Vauxhall, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    350

    Default Re: OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by Beut Idaho View Post
    Is the tube low enough for this to treat under a reduced entrance that may be only 1/4 inch high with a landing board or would that make the unit point downward too much?
    If that is the way you want to treat all the time, you can just bend the 3/16 tube easily, but gentle and careful. I will make some pictures tomorrow and place them here, but could be later afternoon or evening.
    Summ Summ Bienchen summ herum

  10. #9
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Vauxhall, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    350

    Default Re: OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Hello,

    As promised, I build OA VAP110.05 to feed in to the low front entrance. I don't know if this is low enough? Please tell me.

    OA VAP110.05 Low Entrance-1.jpg OA VAP110.05 Low Entrance-2.jpg
    Summ Summ Bienchen summ herum

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Lexington County, SC USA
    Posts
    50

    Default

    Joerg,

    What is the amperage draw of this vaporizer and how long does it take per hive?

    Thank you - Smokey

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Campbell River, BC, CA
    Posts
    1,726

    Default Re: OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokeybee View Post
    Joerg,

    What is the amperage draw of this vaporizer and how long does it take per hive?

    Thank you - Smokey
    The paper that comes with it says 110V, 300 watt, 2.7 amps.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Vauxhall, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    350

    Default Re: OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by Smokeybee View Post
    Joerg,

    What is the amperage draw of this vaporizer and how long does it take per hive?

    Thank you - Smokey
    Thanks grozzie2, you are correct, 300 Watt and this makes 2.727 Amp. on 110 VAC.

    The time to dissolve and vaporize the OA depends on: ambient temperature, amount of OA, set point on the PID controller, starting temp. of the bowl, cooling of the discharge tube and the amount of OA. Normal 3 gram, 1/2 teaspoon takes 30-55 seconds. It seems the length for the first and second vaporizing takes longer then any subsequent charges.
    Summ Summ Bienchen summ herum

  14. #13
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,045

    Default Re: OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Santa brought me one for Christmas!

    I just made a trial run. On my watt meter it shows 275 - 278 watts watts power draw. Closer to 300 when first powered on. With temperature outside right around freezing the time to discharge half teaspoon load was 50 seconds.

    Temperature control is quite precise and it appears the setting as received will be easy on the silicone plugs. Burning plugs is a bit of a problem with my homemade one without temperature control.
    Frank

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Lexington County, SC USA
    Posts
    50

    Default Re: OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Thank you sir!

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Earlysville, Virginia USA
    Posts
    150

    Default Re: OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Joerg,
    A few questions as I am in the market for a faster way to treat my bees than the wands I have.
    Yours looks nice and stout but I am wondering if the tube is strong enough to not be damaged by leaving the unit stuck in a hole or sitting on a front entrance while loading the next caps.
    Your display is below the handle and facing outward rather than upward...How is it reading the temp and settings while installed in a hive without kneeling like in your video?
    Once running what is the average time for a two box hive treatment? I have 60-100 hives to treat at a go.
    How long have you been using yours? have you tested its efficacy? Do you have a warranty?

  17. #16
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Vauxhall, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    350

    Default Re: OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Hello Ryan,

    Happy New Year and happy bees!

    Any comments by users of my vaporizer are encouraged! I can implement changes to my design if I am told what is needed.

    Thank you for your questions and I will try to answer them for you & others.

    I build & sell the current 110.04 for about a year. My first prototype was build about two years ago and is still my standard unit while I always try my newest model to make sure all works as assumed.

    Now, all band heater type vaporizers work on the same principal: a bowl with not to much size and very conductive material (welded copper in my case), a band heater with the highest watt rating possible (300 watt in my units), a plug to drop the required OA charge in to the hot bowl and a discharge tube also highly conductive (again copper in my case). Many tests have been conducted by others and myself on what size is best and we all have come to agree that the 3/16" works the best. No way really around that and you are correct, it is the weakest point in all units, mine and from other builders. My unit is sturdy, well build and tested many times. The interesting part is that I receive many questions before a purchase, but once delivered I hear nothing anymore. The old saying is still valid 'no news is good news'.

    Your current process will take about 4-5 minutes per treatment and you need to let the pan cool before charging for the next hive, remove the entrance reducer (if installed) and you will defiantly have to change your mode of action. With 60-100 hives, you will not have single hives, but probably four per pallet and I would work in pallet (or group) increments. Four hives in a group means four plugs prepared with charge and once the unit is at 420-430F, you will push the up-side-down bowl on the plug, insert the 3/16" tube in the front entrance, side hole or wherever you want to treat from and turn the unit so the charge drops. From here on, you will not have much time to do anything else, 30-45 seconds on and your first charge is gone, you take the next and want stop and get a break until all for charges are gone. This is best done in a team with more then 10-20 hives, one preps, one does the treatment.

    I have left the tube for a minute or two in the entrance when I tested and it does not bend that easy, but one needs to remember what is important, to get the required result and it is not a large, strong tube bubbling the OA on the bottom board, but the thin tube to vaporize as much as possible to push the OA vapor through the hive.

    The PID position could be a concern, but what better place then opposite from the vaporizing tube at all times, not pointing up at one position and pointing down in the 'loading, charging' position. Once you are going, this becomes a non issue since you only glance at the value to confirm the charge is spend and the temperature is rising again (indicating the OA charge is spend).

    About efficacy, this has been debated in this and other forums for a long time and I believe the common understanding is this: if vaporized as much as possible with a good band heater and controller through a narrow tube into a hive that is not fully clustered, then the results are as good as any other method, but it should and needs to be monitored since every location is unique and the operator needs to be able to judge if his approach yields the necessary results. This includes other treatment options, mite counts before and after, treatment intervals etc. If you want the easy way out, Apivar is the way to go, say four strips in fall and four strips in spring for a double deep brood hive, CAD3.00-4.00 a strip= CAD24 to 32 per hive per year plus opening to install and remove after 6 weeks is money too. 100 hives = CAD2400 plus time.

    I have not used Apivar miticide for two year and my hives are healthy, but one needs to be on guard all the time as you will know.

    My units have a normal one year warranty and I would be a foul not acting on customers problems and remedy them as quickly as possible since bad news travels much faster then good news. Excluded from the warranty is the 3/16" tube breakage since this is user related and should (and has not) happened with any unit.

    The unit is setup relatively simple, the bowl is mounted with two SS screws and acorn nuts, washers and thermocouple to the frame and exchanging the bowl can be done easily, but it takes the right tools and about 15-30 minutes, but holding or supporting the unit for the 30-45 seconds of actual action makes more sense to me. One would not leave a loaded gun unattended either.

    Again, I build the OA VAP110.04 for a while and I am confident it is a good tool and had not to act on any claims to date.

    I hope this helps you to make your decision. Let me know if you have additional questions.

    With best regards, JoergK.
    Summ Summ Bienchen summ herum

  18. #17
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,045

    Default Re: OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    If your hives have anywhere nearly the same height you could have a block of wood or a prop that would allow you to set the unit on while it was discharging. That would save having to hold onto it. A weight and a string could also easily suspend it from the top of the hive.
    Frank

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Earlysville, Virginia USA
    Posts
    150

    Default Re: OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Thanks for the detailed response JoergK.
    Ironically I was in my bees doing the winter treatment with my two wand vaporizers. It took me just over 3 hours to do 60 hives. I currently use Varrox brand ones and dunk them in cold water as soon as I pull them out of the hive without ever disconnecting them from the battery. While not an approved cool off method it has worked for five years and speeds things up greatly. But it sounds like I could knock the time more than in half with a unit like yours which would be nice for sure.

    I recently borrowed a provap and was able to leave it propped in the entrance like you do at the 0:33 mark of the https://youtu.be/plnY3xASNto front entrance video. Their tube appears to be shorter than yours and thus perhaps would have less tendency to bend? By leaving it in the front I could prepare the next plug and was able to do all 60 hives without stopping just using two plugs. How much does your unit weigh? your workmanship looks beautiful by the way!
    Thanks
    Ryan

  20. #19
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Vauxhall, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    350

    Default Re: OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Thanks Ryan, you know that need is the mother of all inventions and we are just into year three of this vaporizing development, but have learned great things since we started (not just me, I mean all that build them). I can make the 3/16 pipe any length and you as buyer can take a small pipe cutting tool and shorten the pipe to any length, but remember, it is easy to cut, but hard to stretch.

    Look at post #10, where I have bend the tube and anyone with a little care can make thus bends. Fill the tube with fine sand, salt or such to avoid kinking the tube.

    The unit weighs two pounds.
    Summ Summ Bienchen summ herum

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Mount Pleasant, South Carolina
    Posts
    22

    Default Re: OA VAP 110.04 Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Joerg, I would like to correspond with you about a purchase.
    A Coastal SC Master Beekeeper on a coddiwomple

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