Against Smoking Bees
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  1. #1

    Default Against Smoking Bees

    This is a class assignment that I made discussing why we should ban the use of smoke on bees.

    https://ryanwilliamson121.wixsite.com/bees

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Against Smoking Bees

    nice presentation, but I don't believe any of it. It only messes up their sense of smell for ten minutes and masks the alarm pheromone, which keeps us from getting stung. I doubt a hole in a log could hold more bees than a Langstroth hive, there may be a few, but no one is controlling their swarming behavior. I have never heard of the smoke tainting the honey, but I am a first year beekeeper.
    NCSBA Certified Beekeeper - my Youtube Vlog
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BackyardBeesNC

  4. #3
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    Default Re: Against Smoking Bees

    Read up on it. Smoke is fine just don’t over smoke.
    Proverbs 16:24

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Against Smoking Bees

    From the link:

    "Next time you go to the store and purchase honey, please make sure it is organic because that ensures that the bees have never been smoked and the honey has been collected in the safest way possible for the bees."

    Where is this organic honey that you buy?

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Against Smoking Bees

    psm1212 - very subtle; excellent educational moment!

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Against Smoking Bees

    Well to each his own but I would love to see some.organic honey harvested from a 5 deep hive with no smoke and no beesuits.
    Feeding early patties. https://youtu.be/bUDd3vk7bgY

  8. #7
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    Default Re: Against Smoking Bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennessee's Bees LLC View Post
    Well to each his own but I would love to see some.organic honey harvested from a 5 deep hive with no smoke and no beesuits.
    I think if they would do this it should be on a rainy day just before sunset. I'll bring the umbrellas and pay to watch.

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Against Smoking Bees

    There's no such thing as organic honey, bees can potentially forage up to 7 miles around, how could one guarantee, no pesticides or fertilizers were used in that 50-60,000 acres diameter?
    NCSBA Certified Beekeeper - my Youtube Vlog
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BackyardBeesNC

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Against Smoking Bees

    And how would smoke make honey not organic?
    Proverbs 16:24

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Against Smoking Bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryanwilliamson121 View Post
    This is a class assignment that I made discussing why we should ban the use of smoke on bees.

    https://ryanwilliamson121.wixsite.com/bees
    Ryan, Immanuel Kant said: "No one can compel me to be happy in accordance with his conception of the welfare of others, for each may seek his happiness in whatever way he sees fit, so long as he does not infringe upon the freedom of others to pursue a similar end which can be reconciled with the freedom of everyone else within a general workable law — i.e. he must accord to others the same right as he enjoys himself."

    Many of the founders of the United States understood the importance of individual liberties particularly in the face of the "Leviathon". You may smoke bees or not smoke bees as you wish. I will do likewise. To discourage the use of smoke or rail against it is one thing, perhaps a good thing, perhaps not. To ban others from smoking bees is an altogether different thing.

    On another note, I've used sugar water, and scented water, and smoke, and nothing. For the little feral mutts that live in my boxes, smoke saves more bees lives than other methods. I also cold smoke cheese and hot smoke ribs, so maybe we're different. That's okay. You be you. Cheers, and have a joyous holy season.
    David Matlock

  12. #11

    Default

    It would seem to me that smoke would not make honey be non-organic, as long as the trees from which the wood that's used in the smoker or whatever other material you using in the smoker was organically raised. I like lilac wood as the smokiest wood I have ever seen, and since nobody uses pesticides or herbicides or even chemical fertilizers on their lilac trees, I can pretty much guarantee that my smoke is organic.

    However, I think it is a good idea to avoid using smoke in the honey supers, and to use smoke judiciously in the brood chambers.

    Using a little smoke definitely calms the bees down, and minimizes disruption to the hive. It is also helpful to move bees so they don't get squashed, which is always a problem.

    I have never been able to taste smoke in the honey, even on those occasions when I probably haven't been as careful as some other people might be to avoid smoke in honey supers. I'm not sure how Smokey honey would taste. That smoke flavor is actually pretty popular with a lot of things, not sure it would add much to the flavor of honey.

    I am just a novice, though, so don't get to enamored of my opinions.

  13. #12
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    Default Re: Against Smoking Bees

    I use smoke in order to minimize the harm to the bees under my care.
    So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Against Smoking Bees

    From the link
    These are what beekeepers use to hold the bees safely. The bees leave the hive to collect pollen and return to make honey. These manufactured hives don't contain as many bees as a hive you would find in nature.
    odd "fact" indeed with no source

    My understanding is a manufactured hive often has many, many, many more bees then natural do to swarm prevention management and a volume many time more then "natural" ... that's how honey crops are made, please refer to the works of Tom Seeley to compare natural vs managed hive volumes

    RW welcome here, how can we help you next project have improved research sources ? your 1st one missed the mark a bit do to confirmation bias, and maby the internet
    moving forward if you can't find it on google scholar, the likely hood of its reliability becomes in question

  15. #14
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    Default Re: Against Smoking Bees

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    RW welcome here,
    Plus 1
    David Matlock

  16. #15
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    Default Re: Against Smoking Bees

    Ryan i would be interested to know how old you are.

    You have laid your project out in an interesting way, you have also done some research, and supplied references. If the person who is grading your work knows nothing about bees i think you may score well.

    However there is a problem. Which is, a number of your facts are wrong. This is not your fault, it is because the sources you have referenced are poorly informed, and you have used their information without cross checking their accuracy.

    But you have done well coming here to seek further information. However getting the truth, will mean you will have to re write your assignment, and will not be able to back your point, being that smoking bees should be banned.

    Way I see it you got 2 choices. Present your assignment as is, and you may score well if the person grading it knows nothing about beekeeping. Or, change it somewhat. Here's a couple facts if you go the change it route.

    A langstroth hive will typically hold a lot more bees than an average wild hive. Langstroth hives are designed to be expandable to build big bee populations and maximise the honey crop. This is not a problem for your assignment you can simply re write that part and it will not change the general thrust of your article.

    But about smoking. You are correct, it masks the bees ability to detect alarm pheremones. In practise, this has the effect of keeping the bees calm. A hive that stays calm during the beekeeper visit will come through in better shape than a hive that gets riled up. The calm hive is simply re assembled by the beekeeper after the visit, and the bees just get on with their work as though nothing happened. Much better for the bees. Spraying sugar water, and other methods, work, but no other method works as well as smoke.

    Unfortunately, stating that, is going to destroy the thrust of your article, that smoking bees should be banned.

    I have a suggestion though, an alternative point to the article. There are a few possibilities but here is one. Since you discuss organic honey, should any honey be labelled organic? Because here's the thing. A beekeeper may apply organic principles to how he cares for his bees. But how does he know that somewhere on another property, his bees visited plants that had been contaminated with something somebody sprayed?

    If that point doesn't work for you there could be others, but if you think of one, run it past us first so we can fact check for you before you go to the trouble of writing it up.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  17. #16
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    Default Re: Against Smoking Bees

    You’re fortunate to have received some excellent and well written advice here from some really good and experienced beekeepers, Ryan. Read and learn with an open mind. Best of luck on your assignment.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  18. #17
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    Default Re: Against Smoking Bees

    >This is a class assignment that I made discussing why we should ban the use of smoke on bees.

    I think too many people have watched "The Bee Movie". Beekeepers don't asphyxiate the bees with smoke. Just a bit of smoke in the air calms them a lot and saves the lives of a lot of bees who otherwise would get defensive and die stinging the beekeepers suit or gloves. We have records in cave paintings that people have been smoking bees for several thousand years at least for good reasons. It saves the lives of bees and the discomfort of of the beekeeper.

    That's ignoring the erroneous concept of people banning things that they don't understand.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  19. #18
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    Default Re: Against Smoking Bees

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryanwilliamson121 View Post
    This is a class assignment that I made discussing why we should ban the use of smoke on bees.

    https://ryanwilliamson121.wixsite.com/bees
    Misdirection based on misinformation.

    Too many mis-educated educators.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  20. #19
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    Default Re: Against Smoking Bees

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Misdirection based on misinformation.

    Too many mis-educated educators.
    Yes, I agree with you, it is tiresome. But the upside is they will eventually find out for themselves and be better beekeepers, or they’ll give it up.
    Proverbs 16:24

  21. #20
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    Default Re: Against Smoking Bees

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Misdirection based on misinformation.
    Too many mis-educated educators.
    I'm overwhelmed by the irony here !!

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