TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?
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  1. #1
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    Default TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    Edward Bernays.

    I thought about this fellow in relation to changing the mind set about breeding a more resistant bee but the ideology applies to anything that would take a major shift in our collective priorities. That is pivotal to so many issues we face: Another classic would be climate change or other issues that only respond to collective action.

    I think we are definitely exposed to this type of manipulation in many ways that we are unaware of. Some for our betterment but in many ways NOT.

    Click this link to read about the methods of a man who devoted his life to manipulating public opinion. He felt what he was doing was valuable but in later years rather recanted as he saw that the tools were being used in so many ways that were against the common good.


    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ry_of_the_Self
    Last edited by crofter; 12-09-2019 at 09:19 AM.
    Frank

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    This is why one should leverage the current technology status and consume the alternative media - plenty are available.
    No one is forcing no one to be consuming the approved mainstream media (unlike during the era of Hitler and Stalin).

    The real issue is the selection what to consume and what to ignore.

    Here is a good start (lots of good archives too):
    https://consortiumnews.com/

    BTW, this is one of the news outlets that STILL allows the public comments - this is telling.
    Most mainstream outlets shut down the public commenting on the news.
    Last edited by GregV; 12-09-2019 at 10:27 AM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  4. #3
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    Default Re: TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    A trait everybody but myself falls for.
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  5. #4
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    Default Re: TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    .

    The real issue is the selection what to consume and what to ignore.
    Very few people actually select what to consume. The choice is "where"; the "what" simply follows.
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  6. #5
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    Default Re: TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    Having read many articles about bees published even on major news sites that are often full of inaccuracies has made me assume that many other things I read and accept as fact may well be just as inaccurate. Ever notice how an article that begins with something on the order of “a new study just published ..........” is always funded by a special interest group that miraculously seems to find just what they were looking for?
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  7. #6
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    Default Re: TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    According to people close to the source......

    A local beekeeper said......

    Alex
    Ten years of Beekeeping before varroa. Started again spring of 2014.

  8. #7
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    Default Re: TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    Quote Originally Posted by AHudd View Post
    According to people close to the source......

    A local beekeeper said......

    Alex
    People say, A lot of people say..
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  9. #8
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    Default Re: TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    This is why one should leverage the current technology status and consume the alternative media
    Noooo!!
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  10. #9
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    Default Re: TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Noooo!!
    Nooo to what?? This forum is an alternate media and new tech. My first 20 years doing beekeeping I had 2 books and my Dad. Was really not much else "I had access" to. Lived in the sticks and did not know any other bee keepers. Now I can read for hours on forums see youTubes, order 40 books from Amazon and have them the next day, download E-books , watch the honey shows in Europe. H E double axe handles yes use current tech. I have learned more in the last 5 years than the first 30 of bee keeping.

    Oldtimer what are you Nooo ing about?

    I'll admit some of the Youtubes and forum entries are lets say "inaccurate" but watch a 100 or so and you can pick those out .
    GG

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    Default Re: TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    I am not sure this is pertinent to the thread but I think it is relevant.

    I do not know what to make of the "crowd control" information and influencing by redirecting via fabricated stories. Awareness is certainly an important factor. The media is making us or at least me, very aware. I grew up in a "disadvantaged" environment, learned to identify BS early and finally put a dictionary on my desk to increase my comprehension and communication skills. It would seem I gravitated to the sciences, stayed in an engineering environment, avoided management and learned to pay attention to facts and long term system effects.

    I really despise todays marketing methods, lack of specifications and details, failure to inform in good faith, lack of fiduciary responsibilities, in many markets and media outlets from politics to drinking water. I am also aware a lot of people seem to have stopped critical thinking and learning - maybe "they" never did much of that. Fact gathering and decision making is hard work. I do love the todays' ability to search the world, find data and information leads fast. So I take the good (info) with the bad (info). I learned a long time ago to "verify" information that is important. I remain a Contrarian who likes to ask a lot of questions; too many for most people.

    Last time I went to buy a truck, I decided my dog would not like it. Kept the old one and quit FaceBook. My dog agreed. "Life is Good", a lot better than it was years ago but do not assume it will continue that way.

  12. #11
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    Default Re: TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    .... I have learned more in the last 5 years than the first 30 of bee keeping......
    GG
    +1

    I honestly have not been watching the TV for years (still have the stupid TV set, at least it is free on the digital antennae).
    Who cares of the TV crap when I have tons of Youtube materials on the exact subjects I care about.
    Time availability is the real issue.

    Too bad, my Old Man could have never dreamed of what information is available now.
    I wish I could teach him how to make the nucs (he tried and failed and dropped the entire thing as if impossible).

    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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    Default Re: TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Holcombe View Post
    ......I remain a Contrarian...I went to buy a truck......Kept the old one.. and quit FaceBook. ......

    I do not exist in Facebook.
    Oh, and I drive a white minivan (no trucks).
    Now, that is Contrarian.
    I live in alternative media.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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    Default Re: TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    Nooo to what??
    Alternate media.

    Which where i come from is chemtrails, alien lizards, the evils of the langstroth hive, etc..

    However if alternate media means something else in the USA, then I withdraw my Nooo.

    I can see how in some cases, such as for example someone living in Russia, the alternate media may be better than the official one.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  15. #14
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    Default Re: TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Holcombe View Post
    I am not sure this is pertinent to the thread but I think it is relevant.

    <snip>Awareness is certainly an important factor.
    <Snip> learned to identify BS early and finally put a dictionary on my desk to increase my comprehension and communication skills.
    <snip> I gravitated to the sciences,
    <snip>. learned to pay attention to facts and long term system effects.
    <snip>I am also aware a lot of people seem to have stopped critical thinking and learning - maybe "they" never did much of that. Fact gathering and decision making is hard work.
    <snip> ). I learned a long time ago to "verify" information that is important. I remain a Contrarian who likes to ask a lot of questions; too many for most people.

    My apologies to Robert for snipping up his post.

    I think those are key elements to avoid being pulled into contributing to someone elses agenda. The influence is often very subtle. There is also a great possibility that people can be influenced to dismiss the very information that would be in his best interests. I feel this has happened to people who have been totally turned off by anything associated with scientific method or that they associate with authority or the establishment. That makes them susceptible to other peoples "alternative facts" and conspiracy theories.

    Just because something is an alternative to something else does not automatically make it good or bad. That is where the critical thinking is required! I think this may be related to Oldtimers " Noooo!"

    Contrarian? me! well not much of a crowd follower. A blog I have followed for a few years is https://questioneverything.typepad.com/

    This fellow is a systems analyst; he digs very deep for root cause effects. No simplistic solutions from this fellow.
    Frank

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    Default Re: TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    My apologies to Robert for snipping up his post.

    I think those are key elements to avoid being pulled into contributing to someone elses agenda. The influence is often very subtle. There is also a great possibility that people can be influenced to dismiss the very information that would be in his best interests. I feel this has happened to people who have been totally turned off by anything associated with scientific method or that they associate with authority or the establishment. That makes them susceptible to other peoples "alternative facts" and conspiracy theories.

    Just because something is an alternative to something else does not automatically make it good or bad. That is where the critical thinking is required! I think this may be related to Oldtimers " Noooo!"

    Contrarian? me! well not much of a crowd follower. A blog I have followed for a few years is https://questioneverything.typepad.com/

    This fellow is a systems analyst; he digs very deep for root cause effects. No simplistic solutions from this fellow.
    I will whole heartily agree with the need for critical thinking. With the spoon feeding of children by schools and media and culture I am not so sure this ability is being propagated. I am sure every generation thinks the next is ill suited, but I see teens now who just by careful observation are not equipped to think on their own. Just this week I seen a kid driving around, snow, 20 degrees in shorts and sandals. He hoped out at the move rental place. One ditching away from loosing toes, seeming not a care in the world. Thanks for the link.
    GG

  17. #16
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    Default Re: TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Alternate media.

    Which where i come from is chemtrails, alien lizards, the evils of the langstroth hive, etc..

    However if alternate media means something else in the USA, then I withdraw my Nooo.

    I can see how in some cases, such as for example someone living in Russia, the alternate media may be better than the official one.
    Alternative media includes ALL alternative media.
    You are free to read or ignore the segments about the aliens.
    I posted above a good example of alternative media source - reputable people represented on that site (no alien BS).

    In Russia the Putin-approved sources are clogging the pipelines.
    In the US, it is Bloomberg-approved, Buffet-approved, John Doe-approved sources that are clogging the pipelines.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  18. #17
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    Default Re: TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    Alternative media includes ALL alternative media.
    You are free to read or ignore the segments about the aliens.
    I posted above a good example of alternative media source - reputable people represented on that site (no alien BS).

    In Russia the Putin-approved sources are clogging the pipelines.
    In the US, it is Bloomberg-approved, Buffet-approved, John Doe-approved sources that are clogging the pipelines.
    Greg, well there yo go. we have differing views of alternate. My view "standard media" nbc cbs abc and newspapers. Alternate media, E books, websites, YouTube, Beesource, google translate, all the things I could not get to or did not have say around 1999. And yes you do have to sift thru the junk looking for the good stuff. And IMO today the Standard News is also full for "make new, or fake news" so to help with clarity "Make News" we did a survey about pick you topic, say," If held today an election between Trump and Bugs Bunny" as this will not and did not happen this news is "Made" for a reason. Fake news, eggs are bad for you, coffee is bad for you, study shows,,,,Etc. news that some day will be shown to be not true. or 5000 events happened today, we pick out 12 of them and that is the news. So we see what we are "supposed" to see which is a small subset of reality. the media comments and re comments on these 12 things to the point of folks believing this was all that happened today. The site with outright lies are like the Snake oil Sales man on the box or stump of years past. Some with buy it some will try it but in time it fades and non reputable.
    GG

  19. #18
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    Default Re: TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    Greg, well there yo go. we have differing views of alternate. My view "standard media" nbc cbs abc and newspapers. Alternate media, E books, websites, YouTube, Beesource, google translate, all the things .....
    GG
    You see, GG, the technological implementation detail is NOT important.
    WHO approves and controls the content IS important.

    Before you know it - the Youtube content will be (already IS!!!) approved by someone.
    As long as it works for you - it works for you.
    Today's Youtube will be a dinosaur tomorrow (similar to a programmed TV today).

    Google already decides what you find easily and what you don't find easily - a very significant detail - it basically determines what you consume and what you don't consume.

    Always a moving target.
    As long as a content outlet is big enough and valuable enough and has enough audience - eventually someone will become interested in controlling it.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  20. #19
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    Default Re: TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    Quote Originally Posted by GregV View Post
    You see, GG, the technological implementation detail is NOT important.
    WHO approves and controls the content IS important.

    Before you know it - the Youtube content will be (already IS!!!) approved by someone.
    As long as it works for you - it works for you.
    Today's Youtube will be a dinosaur tomorrow (similar to a programmed TV today).

    Google already decides what you find easily and what you don't find easily - a very significant detail - it basically determines what you consume and what you don't consume.

    Always a moving target.
    As long as a content outlet is big enough and valuable enough and has enough audience - eventually someone will become interested in controlling it.
    right and then "Who Watches the Watchers" "Who Approves the Approvers" its is and will be a slippery slope. that is why I like the books from the early 1900s less likely to be affected by editors or media tycoons. And IMO if you think of something for your bees just try it. it will either not work or somewhat work or work well.

    GG

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    Default Re: TIN FOIL HAT or REALITY?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Goose View Post
    right and then "Who Watches the Watchers" "Who Approves the Approvers" its is and will be a slippery slope. that is why I like the books from the early 1900s less likely to be affected by editors or media tycoons. And IMO if you think of something for your bees just try it. it will either not work or somewhat work or work well.

    GG
    Regarding the current technology - it just supports lots of easy ways for many more individuals to publish content (zillions of personal blogs - just one such example).
    THAT is alternative media afforded by the current technology.
    The technology itself is NOT the consumable media; the content IS the consumable media.

    So, as long as the alternative media is redundant enough - no one can control ALL of it in a free society.

    In an obviously oppressed society - it is easy - just ban the publishing unapproved content in any way (OR ELSE!!!) - done.
    In a virtually oppressed society - clog the pipelines with the huge volumes of the "approved content" - so that any alternative media (while totally legal) - is hardly visible and hardly findable and, thus, is not consumed - done.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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