Penn State "COMB" project posts Dec 2019 update - Page 7
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  1. #121
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    Default Re: Penn State "COMB" project posts Dec 2019 update

    Also, fwiw, this friend also told me that the COMB Project was started with purportedly mite-resistant stock from Tennessee and Pennsylvania.

    Again, I'd rather not name names for the sake of maintaining anonymity.
    "The amazing thing about the honey bee is not that she works, but that she works for others." St. John Chrysostom

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  3. #122
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    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
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    Default Re: Penn State "COMB" project posts Dec 2019 update

    told me that the COMB Project was started with purportedly mite-resistant stock
    The source has been named for the start bolth by comb and the 1st post of this thread the problem is they weren't "started" with the stock, it was plugged in the fall


    He reported that Purdue's stock got watered down so much they had to get stock from a participant breeder to maintain the line.
    That is the way of bees, and the point of a cooperative breeding program

  4. #123
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    Default Re: Penn State "COMB" project posts Dec 2019 update

    Still, the stock is involved. And it's dying.

    If genetics get watered down and that is the way of bees, what's the point of all this discussion?

  5. #124

    Default Re: Penn State "COMB" project posts Dec 2019 update

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    foundress feeding wound?
    And the foundress not making offspring does not make a wound? I think all mites must eat.

    Better explanation is that when making successfully offspring mites create some pheromone so that bees open these cells and remove just these mites.

  6. #125
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    Default Re: Penn State "COMB" project posts Dec 2019 update

    sure, but there is something going on with the ones the don't make offspring as that number is much higher in a VSH hive... recapping perhaps

  7. #126
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    Ridgecrest, CA USA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JWChesnut View Post
    The COMB project colocates 12 hives, 4 each in a "Conventional", "Organic Acid" and "Chemical Free" management strategy, at the apiaries of participating beekeepers.

    The COMB project's researcher Dr. Robyn Underwood has posted a (rather skeletal) update.

    The key sentences: " Varroa mites were well controlled in CON and ORG colonies. They were much higher, beginning in late summer, in the CF colonies."

    "The overwintering losses in CON and ORG colonies were easily made up by splitting. Some CF colonies were able to be split, but there were not enough colonies made to completely make up for losses."
    " Going into the winter of 2019-2020, we have 218 colonies; 42 CF, 87 CON, and 89 ORG. We’re hoping for great survival!"

    In the fall of 2018 all colonies in the project were requeened with "feral, TF survivors" from a colony cut out of a house soffit in Jim Thorpe, PA. I find it important to note that these new queens swarmed prodigiously in 2019. "Despite our best efforts, only 11 PA colonies did not swarm. That means that only about 10% of the colonies made it through the season without a brood break."

    My comment: Feral bees have "reverted" to wild type, and swarm at the drop of a hat. This confers "fitness", swarming making up for the huge losses suffered by mite-ridden bees. It, however, complicates domestic management.


    Full progress report at: https://lopezuribelab.com/2019/11/25...ah-g2Vz2cq297g
    The problem with this study is that it treats chemical free as a single entity. We already know the Asian bees keep their brood nest temperature higher than European bees do, so the genetic work must include selecting for higher brooding temperatures. One chemical free segment uses this to increase the hive temperatures to above 40C for 2.5 hours thereby killing or rendering infertile all the hive mites. This group is not included in the study, which is unfortunate.

  8. #127

    Default Re: Penn State "COMB" project posts Dec 2019 update

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    sure, but there is something going on with the ones the don't make offspring as that number is much higher in a VSH hive... recapping perhaps
    OK,

    This is interesting.

    There are several possibilities:
    VSH bees open all cells containing mites (detected by sense of smell, sick bee odor, or whatever) and then they after opening the cell discover, again by their sense of smell ("reproducing mite smell is missing!"), that this mite is not reproducing, so the bees close the cell and leave the mite and pupa alone.

    Or just as well VSH could do it this way:
    - they open all cells with mites (sick bee odor)
    - if the hive is a 100% VSH bee then just opening the cell influences the mites(some chemical coming from the bees) in such a way they donīt make offspring
    - 50% VSH bee can do this trick to half of the mites

  9. #128
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    West Bath, Maine, United States
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    Default Re: Penn State "COMB" project posts Dec 2019 update

    "if the hive is a 100% VSH bee then just opening the cell influences the mites(some chemical coming from the bees) in such a way they donīt make offspring"

    Not really as far out there as my first take impression. In the history of insect chemical warfare it is unlikely the honeybee has not encountered other mites. A hold over ability to sterilize your enemy makes total sense.
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  10. #129
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    Default Re: Penn State "COMB" project posts Dec 2019 update

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaW View Post
    mite-resistant stock from Tennessee
    We all brag about that down here. Right along with "Hey, hold my beer!"
    Zone 7a - 1650ft

  11. #130
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    Hamilton, Alabama
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    Default Re: Penn State "COMB" project posts Dec 2019 update

    Purdue's stock got watered down so much they had to get stock from a participant breeder to maintain the line.
    Which highlights that mating process is both boon and bane of breeding honeybees. The advantages of multiple mating with a diverse group of drones is easily shown. The disadvantage is that concentrating small effect genes is very difficult.


    hold my beer!
    Asking a redneck to "hold my beer!" is right up there with saying "hey ya'll, watch this!"

    To explain for international readers, "hey ya'll, watch this!" usually precedes some idiot doing something to edit themselves out of the gene pool.
    NW Alabama, 50 years, 20 colonies and growing, sideliner, treatment free since 2005, 14 frame square Dadant broodnest

  12. #131
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    West Bath, Maine, United States
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    Default Re: Penn State "COMB" project posts Dec 2019 update

    "To explain for international readers, "hey ya'll, watch this!" usually precedes some idiot doing something to edit themselves out of the gene pool."

    Your just doing it wrong. Can get you into the gene pool too.
    Even a northerner does not think rednecks are going to die out anytime soon.
    It is not true that you cannot teach an old dog new tricks.
    They can learn them, they just can't do them.

  13. #132
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    Default Re: Penn State "COMB" project posts Dec 2019 update

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    LOL
    About the only worth wile thing so far in this study is was (at lest for me) the final death nail in small cell as a mite fighting measure... but it is of note the SC hives made more honey per hive
    adaquitily tested on a large enough scale with enough hives
    I do not propose that small cell and narrow frames are a mite fighting utility other than you'll likely have very strong hive populations that, GIVEN MITE FIGHTING TRAITS, handle mite loads somewhat better than hives with weaker hive populations.

    I DO propose that 5.1 cell size combined with narrow frames brings the hive population up faster, thus taking better advantage of the Spring nectar / pollen flow. This seems to hold especially true when it is heavy and/or early nectar and pollen flow, or a short-lived flow due to single or very limited heavy rains in the early Winter followed by little or very light rainfall totals (exactly what I've been experiencing in the last 14 years).

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    As exciting as it is... MB/MM bees have the limitation of like many TX only going after photic mites, the mites could counter with a shorter period, there are TF groups that claim this has already happened in response to chemical treatments, but I haven't seen any real data.....doses make you wonder about the people saying they need 20 OAVs a year thow.....
    Yes, that is why it is effective with a brood break, or combine mite mauling with limited VHS, or with allogrooming, the mites seem to be kept in check a lot better.

    My successes are coming with mite biting and drone frame removal (if and only if mites are detected - not a blanket treatment. Drones are necessary to keep hive temperature high at night.)

    But, like I say, just my hunch, no scientific study attached, to turbo loadabunk.

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