6-framer - larger-scale, commercial grade, mobile operator - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Default Re: 6-framer - larger-scale, commercial grade, mobile operator

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    But of cource they heat the hive..........
    The real issue is - the ratio of the physical body's heat-outputting capacity to the volume/mass/insulation of the environment that surrounds the heat-outputting body.

    In most all our contexts - a cluster of bees does not really heat the enclosing hive significantly, ESPECIALLY well ventilated hive (in few cases IF they do sometimes - this is not healthy or sustainable for long term - that recent video from KevinWI is an example).

    Of course, any physical body that has the temperature higher than the surrounding environment is HEATING the environment due to well-documented physical processes of energy transfer - via a combination of direct radiation/conductivity/convection. This is not a special case particular to bees, but rather very general thermodynamics.

    Right now I am sitting in this huge office building and also am "heating" it - however, my heating contribution to the building's heating is a virtual zero (relative to the volume/mass of the office building).
    Now - IF they packed 5 thousand people on my floor - that could create noticeable heat/moisture outputs (compare that to a conditioned and insulated commercial storage packed with hundreds of heat/moisture outputting hives - the same).

    Now, let us move the same 5 thousand people into the parking garage just below the building (very well ventilated garage made from concrete) - let me tell you, the garage will stay cold.
    This will be a case of an apiary wintering outside.

    SO - we have 1) a single hive context and 2) a large apiary context.
    These are different contexts.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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  3. #42
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    Default Re: 6-framer - larger-scale, commercial grade, mobile operator

    right... point is we heat our sleeping bag not the tent... but if a few people in sleeping bags snuggle there is defiantly shared heat and the tent is warmer then if everyone is in there own tent

    SO - we have 1) a single hive context and 2) a large apiary context.
    These are different contexts.
    yes and we are talking in the large apiary context... spreading hives out vs stacking them in a wall

    usda-thermology-fig2.gif
    as we see there are areas of 50F touching the hive walls I submit that thew the 3/4 wood the out side of those was is significantly warmer then the 7F out side, and we can see so is almost all of the box
    its a good read
    https://beesource.com/resources/usda...-bee-colonies/

  4. #43
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    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    Default Re: 6-framer - larger-scale, commercial grade, mobile operator

    Here is an idea to go along with the six frame hive body if you really want to be different. Using the Dadant Blatt frame in 2 half height boxes stacked for brood hive and for honey supers it appears one of the boxes is right for a shallow lang frame. Would be a nice setup for someone who has lifting problems.

    http://forum.canberrabees.com/t/recr...rood-frame/148
    Frank

  5. #44
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    Default Re: 6-framer - larger-scale, commercial grade, mobile operator

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    right... point is we heat our sleeping bag not the tent... but if a few people in sleeping bags snuggle there is defiantly shared heat and the tent is warmer then if everyone is in there own tent


    yes and we are talking in the large apiary context... spreading hives out vs stacking them in a wall

    usda-thermology-fig2.gif
    as we see there are areas of 50F touching the hive walls I submit that thew the 3/4 wood the out side of those was is significantly warmer then the 7F out side, and we can see so is almost all of the box
    its a good read
    https://beesource.com/resources/usda...-bee-colonies/
    MSL, I have a copy of that exact PDF and read it.
    I agree about the "in-box" dynamics.
    Definitely, the residual heat loss does affect the internal temps.
    But how significant?
    Depends case by case and context by context.
    Academically speaking - even a fraction of a degree is significant.
    Practically speaking - a very solid foam hive recaptures enough of that energy that bees hardly even cluster (a very tiny mating nucs can winter in the foam - not a problem).
    But a conventional 10-frame Lang from thin boards - ok, go and try to heat that up...

    But back to the LJ's case (wintering a row of boxes outside) - there is not much of energy output that the boxes can share in that case.
    UNLESS you build a mini-wintering shed around them and insulate it well enough to recapture any escaping heat (under sort of a bubble).
    Covering the entire set with a good snow pile will do this as well - not a case for LJ - no snow.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  6. #45
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    Default Re: 6-framer - larger-scale, commercial grade, mobile operator

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    Here is an idea to go along with the six frame hive body if you really want to be different. Using the Dadant Blatt frame in 2 half height boxes stacked for brood hive and for honey supers it appears one of the boxes is right for a shallow lang frame. Would be a nice setup for someone who has lifting problems.

    http://forum.canberrabees.com/t/recr...rood-frame/148
    Frank, if you review few videos starting from my original post here - this is EXACTLY what the guy is doing in those videos.

    As for me, all my boxes will be built about the standard Lang medium frame - a double box of these fits a deep Dadant frame about perfectly (plenty close for the bottom boxes).
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  7. #46
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    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
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    Default Re: 6-framer - larger-scale, commercial grade, mobile operator

    Yes. I have a set of frames ready to assemble. I made them the full 12.75" since I will probably draw them out in stacked five frame boxes. I think the bees work upwards, more eagerly than sideways and make fewer drone cells. In my cold climate frames commonly dont get drawn frame to frame till the second season. They build them out nicer in 5 over 5 over 5 arrangement.

    The author seems to feel the 5 3/8 honey frames get drawn and capped more evenly that the 6 1/4" mediums but it would be quite a challenge to switch equipment when you are already bought in.

    Few beginners would be up to the challenge of going with non standard equipment.
    Frank

  8. #47
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    Default Re: 6-framer - larger-scale, commercial grade, mobile operator

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    I like using excluders and wonder if a 10 frame sized one could be cut in half and set into wooden frames that would extend to cover the six frame box.
    [...]
    I think I am talking myself into building some 6 frame equipment!
    This is a 5-frame QX to which some wood was added to one side so that it would then cover a 6-frame box. Perforated zinc - a horrible material ...



    A few years back I scored a job lot of QX 'kits', the metalwork of which had been poorly galvanised - maybe 10 or 12 kits (forget now). Several of these I sliced in half and modified the woodwork accordingly:



    I found that making 2x female slots at the new corners which were created and then using a biscuit to join them was easier than making a male tongue to fit a female slot:



    These now cover a 230mm-wide 5-frame nuc box, and of course 2 can be used together (if needs be) to cover our standard 460mm-wide 11-frame brood box. I do have four 8-frame hives, and will make some loose battens to place against the 5-frame QX sides to cover the extra width. Wider lumber could always be used to cover a 6-frame width of course.

    All-in-all it's much easier to modify a kit of parts, rather than a pre-made QX.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  9. #48
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    Default Re: 6-framer - larger-scale, commercial grade, mobile operator

    Someone is conducting a comparative observation of 6-framers too vs. standard 10-frame Dadants.
    Here is the start of his project - summer 2019 - moving a split into the 6-frame hive.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcIow9JLf4I

    Fall update:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sgyhHrvRlA

    Winter update:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWTRfb1BIE0
    Last edited by GregV; 02-12-2020 at 08:59 AM.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  10. #49

    Default Re: 6-framer - larger-scale, commercial grade, mobile operator

    Waiting for the fail update. :-)

  11. #50
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    Default Re: 6-framer - larger-scale, commercial grade, mobile operator

    Full collection:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCm...E1x6qmQ/videos[/QUOTE]

    The 6-framer guy started reporting his early 2020 status.
    His base is compatible to USDA 7.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrnuN5ezGtg
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

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