Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup - Page 2
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 34 of 34
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

    Quote Originally Posted by Biermann View Post
    Sorry to rupture your peace, but it is always by weight in my books. I know the old way of volumetric measuring is hard to die, but the weight is what we need (not on our hips).
    RIGHT, thats what I said, am I missing something?

    My peace is fine. What are you babbling about?
    Last edited by Surly L; 12-05-2019 at 12:21 PM.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    BeeSource.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    4,132

    Default Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

    Quote Originally Posted by Surly L View Post
    UMM, I hate to interrupt the chemistry lecture, but, isnt the 2:1 or 1:1 by weight, not volume?


    D'OH!
    It is by weight, and LJ and I were discussing two different types of solutions, both of which use weight as part of the equation. Regarding the weight vs volume discussion for making syrup, a cup of sugars weighs almost the same as a cup of water, so it works out volumetrically as well in this case. (Or at least close enough for the bees who don't give a darn one way or the other.)
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  4. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,922

    Default Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

    >I hate to interrupt the chemistry lecture, but, isnt the 2:1 or 1:1 by weight, not volume?

    Since the sugar comes in packages labeled in pounds and since a pint of water weighs close enough to a pound, Just do pints and pounds and you'll be fine.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  5. #24
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,981

    Default Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

    MB's method is good but sometimes we dont know how many pints volume our containers are. If I am guessing at that figure I will use two containers of sugar to each container of water. That way I dont need a lot of the hooplah you hover heducated fellows are quibbling over. As mentioned, a given volume of granulated sugar weighs close enough to the same as that volume of water would.

    We are feeding bugs, not a nuclear reactor.
    Frank

  6. #25
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Vauxhall, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    341

    Default Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

    Oh my, what have I done. MB, I believe more sugar is sold by kg, ton or any other metric weigh one uses then lbs. Lbs is only for a few enlighten nations. Even the good Brit's measure now in metric.

    If you take 20 liter of sugar and 10 liter of water, you end up with 16.9 kg of sugar and 10 kg of water in your syrup, that is a good number away from 2:1.

    If it does not matter, then why do any measuring?
    Summ Summ Bienchen summ herum

  7. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    4,132

    Default Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    That way I dont need a lot of the hooplah you hover heducated fellows are quibbling over.
    Oooh, hoverly heducated, I like that. I knew my tuition dollars were wasted when the they tried to teach me pie r square. Everyone knows pie r round! To make matters worse, they then taught me that 1 pie is only half of a circle. 'Scuse me, but 1 pie is a whole circle. I tell ya, the things they teach in screwls nowadays.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  8. #27
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,981

    Default Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

    https://scienceprojectideasforkids.c...ubility-graph/

    This is a solubility graph of sugar in water relative to temperature. 200 grams sugar in 100 grams water is a saturated solution at approximately normal room temperature. Any drop in temperature will result in crystallization. Any amount of mineralization of the water will decrease the solubility.

    Biermann quotes the two to one ratio by volume will actually result in a 1.69 : 1 solution by weight. This figure could be quite accurate, depending somewhat on how coarse or fine it is. Anyways, in my opinion that ratio is more practical for usual fall feeding than one that is truly 2 : 1

    I have seen M Bush write that a 5 : 3 solution is what he commonly shoots for. When I was fussy about actually getting a true 2 : 1 ratio by weight I have experienced crystallization. Not worth the possibly slight gain in conversion efficiency for the bees.

    Two to one by volume is as good as it gets for the girls I hang out with!
    Frank

  9. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    St. Charles, MO, USA
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

    Quote Originally Posted by SWM View Post
    Okay, thanks for the feedback. For longevity mix 2:1 and keep it cold...got it.

    Now I'm going to hijack my own thread and ask a second question. Let's say I have 2:1 left from fall feeding
    and it's still good in the spring. If I want to stretch the syrup, how much water do I add to each gallon of 2:1 to make it 1:1.
    Maybe I'm just being lazy by asking, but my math skills aren't working too well this morning
    Just feed it to them as 2:1. All I feed anymore regardless of the time of year is 2:1 or extra heavy 2.5:1. bees do great on it.

  10. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    >I hate to interrupt the chemistry lecture, but, isnt the 2:1 or 1:1 by weight, not volume?

    Since the sugar comes in packages labeled in pounds and since a pint of water weighs close enough to a pound, Just do pints and pounds and you'll be fine.



    Yup, thats the point. Making things harder doesn't make them more special.

  11. #30
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,981

    Default Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

    Quote Originally Posted by ffrtsaxk View Post
    Just feed it to them as 2:1. All I feed anymore regardless of the time of year is 2:1 or extra heavy 2.5:1. bees do great on it.
    2.5:1 would make a supersaturated solution. That would take quite special conditions to keep from crystallizing.
    Frank

  12. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,635

    Default Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    2.5:1 would make a supersaturated solution. That would take quite special conditions to keep from crystallizing.
    It's only super-saturated in terms of sucrose - so you might want to consider inverting it - that way you will have a glucose solution which is highly 'contaminated' with fructose, and vice-versa. Solutions which are nowhere near pure (as this would then be) tend not to crystallise so readily.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  13. #32
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma District Northern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,981

    Default Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

    Quote Originally Posted by little_john View Post
    It's only super-saturated in terms of sucrose - so you might want to consider inverting it - that way you will have a glucose solution which is highly 'contaminated' with fructose, and vice-versa. Solutions which are nowhere near pure (as this would then be) tend not to crystallise so readily.
    LJ
    Yes, inverting is one of the "special conditions" I had in mind. Smooth, clean containers and no traces of crystals or physical contaminates. The possibility of creation of hydroxymethyl furfurol could also be a side issue.

    Are you recommending 2.5 to 1 syrup as practical or merely quibbling?

    Surly L says "Yup, thats the point. Making things harder doesn't make them more special."
    Frank

  14. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,635

    Default Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

    Quote Originally Posted by crofter View Post
    Are you recommending 2.5 to 1 syrup as practical or merely quibbling?
    Quibbling ? No - just trying to be helpful ...

    By fully inverting, I have raised the concentration to somewhere in excess of 3.5:1 - but I only did that as a test 'just to see what was possible'.

    Would I recommend doing this ? Not at all. I don't even bother these days with making exactly 2:1 or exactly 1:1 either. I just empty two 1Kg bags of sugar into a pan, and add a kettle-full of boiling water - that quickly makes a syrup a tad less than 2:1 - maybe 1.8 or somewhere near that. Don't know for sure, and not sure I really care. That's what I give them now (whatever it is) - come Spring or Autumn - they seem to do perfectly ok on that.

    I sometimes wonder where the 2:1 / 1:1 stuff originated, 'cause 1:1 is far thicker than nectar ever is, and 2:1 is nowhere near as thick as honey.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  15. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    England, UK
    Posts
    1,635

    Default Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

    There's really no practical upper limit if you fully invert - here's an example of the gel which is eventually formed with a very high concentration of sugars:





    And if you keep removing even more water, then you end up with toffee !
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •