Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup - Page 2

Thread: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

1. Join Date
Oct 2018
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10

Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

Originally Posted by Biermann
Sorry to rupture your peace, but it is always by weight in my books. I know the old way of volumetric measuring is hard to die, but the weight is what we need (not on our hips).
RIGHT, thats what I said, am I missing something?

My peace is fine. What are you babbling about?
Last edited by Surly L; 12-05-2019 at 12:21 PM.

2.

3. Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

Originally Posted by Surly L
UMM, I hate to interrupt the chemistry lecture, but, isnt the 2:1 or 1:1 by weight, not volume?

D'OH!
It is by weight, and LJ and I were discussing two different types of solutions, both of which use weight as part of the equation. Regarding the weight vs volume discussion for making syrup, a cup of sugars weighs almost the same as a cup of water, so it works out volumetrically as well in this case. (Or at least close enough for the bees who don't give a darn one way or the other.)

4. Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

>I hate to interrupt the chemistry lecture, but, isnt the 2:1 or 1:1 by weight, not volume?

Since the sugar comes in packages labeled in pounds and since a pint of water weighs close enough to a pound, Just do pints and pounds and you'll be fine.

5. Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

MB's method is good but sometimes we dont know how many pints volume our containers are. If I am guessing at that figure I will use two containers of sugar to each container of water. That way I dont need a lot of the hooplah you hover heducated fellows are quibbling over. As mentioned, a given volume of granulated sugar weighs close enough to the same as that volume of water would.

We are feeding bugs, not a nuclear reactor.

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Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

Oh my, what have I done. MB, I believe more sugar is sold by kg, ton or any other metric weigh one uses then lbs. Lbs is only for a few enlighten nations. Even the good Brit's measure now in metric.

If you take 20 liter of sugar and 10 liter of water, you end up with 16.9 kg of sugar and 10 kg of water in your syrup, that is a good number away from 2:1.

If it does not matter, then why do any measuring?

7. Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

Originally Posted by crofter
That way I dont need a lot of the hooplah you hover heducated fellows are quibbling over.
Oooh, hoverly heducated, I like that. I knew my tuition dollars were wasted when the they tried to teach me pie r square. Everyone knows pie r round! To make matters worse, they then taught me that 1 pie is only half of a circle. 'Scuse me, but 1 pie is a whole circle. I tell ya, the things they teach in screwls nowadays.

8. Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

https://scienceprojectideasforkids.c...ubility-graph/

This is a solubility graph of sugar in water relative to temperature. 200 grams sugar in 100 grams water is a saturated solution at approximately normal room temperature. Any drop in temperature will result in crystallization. Any amount of mineralization of the water will decrease the solubility.

Biermann quotes the two to one ratio by volume will actually result in a 1.69 : 1 solution by weight. This figure could be quite accurate, depending somewhat on how coarse or fine it is. Anyways, in my opinion that ratio is more practical for usual fall feeding than one that is truly 2 : 1

I have seen M Bush write that a 5 : 3 solution is what he commonly shoots for. When I was fussy about actually getting a true 2 : 1 ratio by weight I have experienced crystallization. Not worth the possibly slight gain in conversion efficiency for the bees.

Two to one by volume is as good as it gets for the girls I hang out with!

9. Join Date
Jul 2017
Location
St. Charles, MO, USA
Posts
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Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

Originally Posted by SWM
Okay, thanks for the feedback. For longevity mix 2:1 and keep it cold...got it.

Now I'm going to hijack my own thread and ask a second question. Let's say I have 2:1 left from fall feeding
and it's still good in the spring. If I want to stretch the syrup, how much water do I add to each gallon of 2:1 to make it 1:1.
Maybe I'm just being lazy by asking, but my math skills aren't working too well this morning
Just feed it to them as 2:1. All I feed anymore regardless of the time of year is 2:1 or extra heavy 2.5:1. bees do great on it.

10. Join Date
Oct 2018
Posts
10

Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

Originally Posted by Michael Bush
>I hate to interrupt the chemistry lecture, but, isnt the 2:1 or 1:1 by weight, not volume?

Since the sugar comes in packages labeled in pounds and since a pint of water weighs close enough to a pound, Just do pints and pounds and you'll be fine.

Yup, thats the point. Making things harder doesn't make them more special.

11. Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

Originally Posted by ffrtsaxk
Just feed it to them as 2:1. All I feed anymore regardless of the time of year is 2:1 or extra heavy 2.5:1. bees do great on it.
2.5:1 would make a supersaturated solution. That would take quite special conditions to keep from crystallizing.

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Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

Originally Posted by crofter
2.5:1 would make a supersaturated solution. That would take quite special conditions to keep from crystallizing.
It's only super-saturated in terms of sucrose - so you might want to consider inverting it - that way you will have a glucose solution which is highly 'contaminated' with fructose, and vice-versa. Solutions which are nowhere near pure (as this would then be) tend not to crystallise so readily.
LJ

13. Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

Originally Posted by little_john
It's only super-saturated in terms of sucrose - so you might want to consider inverting it - that way you will have a glucose solution which is highly 'contaminated' with fructose, and vice-versa. Solutions which are nowhere near pure (as this would then be) tend not to crystallise so readily.
LJ
Yes, inverting is one of the "special conditions" I had in mind. Smooth, clean containers and no traces of crystals or physical contaminates. The possibility of creation of hydroxymethyl furfurol could also be a side issue.

Are you recommending 2.5 to 1 syrup as practical or merely quibbling?

Surly L says "Yup, thats the point. Making things harder doesn't make them more special."

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Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

Originally Posted by crofter
Are you recommending 2.5 to 1 syrup as practical or merely quibbling?
Quibbling ? No - just trying to be helpful ...

By fully inverting, I have raised the concentration to somewhere in excess of 3.5:1 - but I only did that as a test 'just to see what was possible'.

Would I recommend doing this ? Not at all. I don't even bother these days with making exactly 2:1 or exactly 1:1 either. I just empty two 1Kg bags of sugar into a pan, and add a kettle-full of boiling water - that quickly makes a syrup a tad less than 2:1 - maybe 1.8 or somewhere near that. Don't know for sure, and not sure I really care. That's what I give them now (whatever it is) - come Spring or Autumn - they seem to do perfectly ok on that.

I sometimes wonder where the 2:1 / 1:1 stuff originated, 'cause 1:1 is far thicker than nectar ever is, and 2:1 is nowhere near as thick as honey.
LJ

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Re: Extending Shelf Life of 2:1 Sugar Syrup

There's really no practical upper limit if you fully invert - here's an example of the gel which is eventually formed with a very high concentration of sugars:

And if you keep removing even more water, then you end up with toffee !
LJ

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