Two untreated hives in my bee yard
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  1. #1
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    Default Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    I have a friend whom I’m mentoring that has decided not to treat his two hives in my apiary. I have about 15 hives my son and I treat with vaporized Oxalic acid. Should I worry about having two untreated hives within my apiary and could the two untreated hives help spread mites into my treated hives ? Really hope I can get some guidance from other beekeepers.

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  3. #2
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    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    I would worry, yes.

    If his hives get loaded up with mites, they will very definately spread into your hives.

    It is completely unreasonable for him to carry out his TF experiment, in your apiary. Although his intentions may not be bad, he probably just has not thought it through, or seen it from your viewpoint.

    It's difficult when dealing with a friend, to kick him out. However he is being absolutely inconsiderate. You got 2 choices. Allow him to continue his experiment in your apiary, or, ask him to do the experiment somewhere else.

    Ask him, would he be happy for you to run a fox farm, in his chicken house, or should the fox farm be run somewhere else.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 11-15-2019 at 01:36 PM.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  4. #3
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    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    As an aside, i have several times been approached by "friends", who have a hive or two they cannot find a home for, ask me if they can put them in one of my bee yards.

    Although very uncomfortable with the idea, because they are a "friend" and it's hard to say no, a few times I have agreed. For one reason or another, each time the whole thing has turned to custard, and caused ill will, and it would have been less damaging to have said a straight up no, up front in the first place. Which is now what I do.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    Whole heartedly agree with Oldtimer - except that I'd use the term 'Horlicks' instead of 'custard'.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Horlicks

    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerPutnam View Post
    I have a friend whom Im mentoring that has decided not to treat his two hives in my apiary. Should I worry about having two untreated hives within my apiary and could the two untreated hives help spread mites into my treated hives ?
    Did you not know he wasn't going to treat them before agreeing to house them? Are the bees from a TF line?, if not, why is he not treating them? Mites will spread both ways. It may be a short experiment anyway
    Please excuse me, I am now free to go manage & treat ;)
    my ladies the best way I know how.

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    Millar has said he is mentoring the guy. Which would indicate the other guy is a new inexperienced beekeeper. Probably read some of that TF stuff on the internet and is now enthused to try it out.

    If allowed will blunder along, unaware of the harm he is doing, because the internet told him it's all good.

    Millar is treating his bees which indicates they are not resistant, and it's unlikely the other guys bees are resistant either.

    The end result will be the newby's hives will die, and along the process flood Millars hives with mites. Because Millar is using AO vapor, and not something more potent like synthetic strips, Millars hives could be exposed to considerable harm.

    If someone wanted to try TF beekeeping in one of my apiaries, the answer would be an in his face NO. I would not even remotely contemplate such a thing.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  8. #7
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    Jul 2016
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    Greenville, SC, USA
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    Default

    Thanks. Guys. This is the answer I got from my son in the beginning so, good to hear consistent answers across the board. I did not know he was not going to treat when we started and he’s new... probably didn’t know himself. But I will give him his choices and see what happens. Thank you so much.

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    If it's hard being forced to say no to a friend, show him this thread to help him see reason.
    "Every viewpoint, is a view from a point." - Solomon Parker

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    Another option if you’re open to it is offering to treat his hives at the same time you are treating your own for a fee. Or having him rent your equipment so he can treat his own. Sometimes the price of the equipment can get in the way. This might be a good teaching moment.
    I'm smart but at the end of the day I'm still the help.

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    MillerPutnam, I assume since you didn’t answer the question if the bees originated from a TF line, they didn’t. So, since you are his mentor, you should mentor him into realizing how bad of an ideal this is?
    Please excuse me, I am now free to go manage & treat ;)
    my ladies the best way I know how.

  12. #11
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    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    To heck with all that, treat his hives and don't tell him. You have to protect your bees. In the time between now and next spring, maybe you can bring him around or help him find another place for his hives to die.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  13. #12
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    Spokane, Washington, USA
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    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    I'd tell him that the apiary is not TF, but you will gladly treat his when you treat yours. Better yet, he can join you and learn how to do it. But not treating, not an option.
    So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.

  14. #13
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    Northern Colorado, USA
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    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    I would put robber screen son his hive ASAP to keep your bees out of his hives when the crash and they start robbing.

    I would also recommend pushing him to treat, but that is harder to do.

  15. #14
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    May 2014
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    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    In a video series we have been doing a colony that was left untreated for experimental purposes had 94 mites in an alcohol wash of 300 bees!!!

    If this hive was not monitored and had collapsed it could have spread many thousand mites thru my beeyard. FYI after 5 OAVs it was still washing a 32. After 3 additional rounds AND apivar it washed a zero. The colony has shrunk and still has signs of multiple viruses (suprises surprise)

    If I was mentoring him I would show him some tough love and tell him to treat or find a different yard.
    Splitting a first year hive successfully https://youtu.be/ZfRTreQ-S9c

  16. #15
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    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    Another point to consider is Randy Oliver found that sick or weak bees will migrate to another hive thinking they’re doing their hive a favor.
    Rod

  17. #16
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    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerPutnam View Post
    I did not know he was not going to treat when we started and hes new...
    An alternative method for selecting treatment free bees should be offered to new optimistic beekeepers. The principle of method is not selecting from the best, but deselecting the worst, bees or mites. In that method the bees are under moderate pressure and that is allegedly the best for evolution. The method can be called LTE.

    From Tennessee's Bees LLC's post:
    FYI after 5 OAVs it was still washing a 32. After 3 additional rounds AND apivar it washed a zero. The colony has shrunk and still has signs of multiple viruses (suprises surprise)
    That is how deselection works; the bees are weakened and mites are eliminated by extensive treatment.

    Eventually treatment / no treatment ratio should be adjusted to target 20% - 30% looses.

  18. #17
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    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    Quote Originally Posted by viesest View Post
    An alternative method for selecting treatment free bees should be offered to new optimistic beekeepers. The principle of method is not selecting from the best, but deselecting the worst, bees or mites. In that method the bees are under moderate pressure and that is allegedly the best for evolution. The method can be called LTE.

    From Tennessee's Bees LLC's post:


    That is how deselection works; the bees are weakened and mites are eliminated by extensive treatment.

    Eventually treatment / no treatment ratio should be adjusted to target 20% - 30% looses.
    We just requeened the colony. No need for bees to die for no reason. This was for our youtube channel. The videos main goal was to show that OAV isn't quite as effective as many think it is with brood present in the hive. Also, to show that mites are to be taken seriously.

    The vast majority of new beekeepers can't afford the method of letting hives perish. Nor do they have the skill or wherewithal to raise and select stock. Fundamental beekeeping and mite control is more important. If they want to dabble with TF stuff then that should come after they learn some basics not before.
    Splitting a first year hive successfully https://youtu.be/ZfRTreQ-S9c

  19. #18
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    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    Well said Tennessee Bees. J

  20. #19
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    ElDorado,Arkansas,USA
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    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    Those two hives of your friends just treat them with yours and dont tell him.His bees will then hopefully live and make him a crop of honey he will be proud of.You wont get mite bombs from his.Its only takes a few minutes of your time and you are covered.He is covered.Both of you are happy and you keep your friend happy.

  21. #20
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    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    Quote Originally Posted by Tennessee's Bees LLC View Post
    The videos main goal was to show that OAV isn't quite as effective as many think it is with brood present in the hive.
    And in addition to that treatment in summer is complicated and/or expensive. So, in 'theory' very efficient winter treatment plus just a bit resistant bees and summer treatment could be skipped, avoided.

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