Two untreated hives in my bee yard - Page 3
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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Albany NY
    Posts
    101

    Default

    So I agree folks using same apiary should be on same page. I don't think anyone should treat bees without telling the owner. However, the operator of the apiary calls the shots: if you treat and he does not want to he can move before you start treating or accept hat his bees will get treated the same as yours.
    I also agree that there is no point starting with t and then going tf. Start the way you want. BUT source your bees from someone local doing it the way you want or expect a long and painful road. And if you decide to go down that road make sure you are not having fall crashes that spread mites and diseases to your neighbors.
    I have experienced
    1) I have a treatment free apiary that a friend moved next to and started keeping and treating his bees. I had a fairly stable population of only 8 colonies there. My losses spiked and he had very low survival rates. (I did not help him with treatments so I do not know if they were unsuccessful.) he has now moved on. I have been able to stabilize a bit but not as well as it was. Now another neighbor is keeping bees. He may or may not use oa or formic. He is frustratingly unforthcoming. He seems worried about losing bees but seems to loose them anyway....
    2) Another tf yard I have with about 40 colonies is not as stable: I have a tf neighbor who looses about 100% of his bees each year. This year he bought 24 overwintered nucs. I assume they are almost dead. In past years he has bought fewer. He does not buy from me and I believe his source is a treated apiary north of us. I assume I am dealing with his mites. It could be frustrating but I generally have fairly decent survival. One year was worse than state average. One year was same. Many years were 10-15% loss (those were the honeymoon years when I did not have such crazy neighbor's....) I have never treated with anything but sugar when they were hungry....
    So treating does not mean they are not mismanaged. And tf is not necessarily viable. I guess I's also suggest that it's best to find a local mentor who keeps bees like you do (ie he should treat or get another mentor who knows tf).

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  3. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Ridgecrest, CA USA
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Just get an MMK and send him a treatment bill.

  4. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    53,913

    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    >To heck with all that, treat his hives and don't tell him. You have to protect your bees.

    So, you'd lie to him and let him think his untreated bees are doing fine as untreated when actually they are being treated. Seems like you're misleading him in more than one way. Wouldn't honesty be better?
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 42y 40h 39yTF

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Dane County, WI, USA
    Posts
    3,308

    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    This a perfect case of needing and reading that stupid simple, one-page general "TF to-do list" that even a child can understand.

    Before you do anything - you ask, is it possible and a good idea to try the TF in my situation?

    Well, silly - NOT in someone else's yard (a yard of treated bees, of all places).

    The #1 is the feasibility check.
    Former "smoker boy". Classic, square 12 frame Dadants >> Long hive/Short frame/chemical-free experimentations.

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Jacksonville, TX
    Posts
    12

    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    Quote Originally Posted by MillerPutnam View Post
    I have a friend whom Iím mentoring that has decided not to treat his two hives in my apiary. I have about 15 hives my son and I treat with vaporized Oxalic acid. Should I worry about having two untreated hives within my apiary and could the two untreated hives help spread mites into my treated hives ? Really hope I can get some guidance from other beekeepers.
    The short answer is yes his hives will transmit varroa mites to your hives. I believe in untreated hives but I would not put my untreated hives with another beekeepers hives. Untreated hives lets the bees develop their own defences against pests but in the process some hives are lost. This is the way of natural selection in nature. Commercial beekeepers must treat for financial reasons but they are breeding weak bees.

  7. #46
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Aylett, Virginia
    Posts
    3,929

    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    So, you'd lie to him and let him think his untreated bees are doing fine as untreated when actually they are being treated. Seems like you're misleading him in more than one way. Wouldn't honesty be better?
    Honesty is better and I would tell him after the fact while working towards an understanding of the risks involved. A true friend would not want to put my hives in danger as he works towards regressing his bees and becoming TF. But I would absolutely treat his hives so that mine would not die. The point is moot as the friend has already agreed to move his hives.

    FWIW, I switched to foundationless this year with the hope that the bees know better what size cells to build. Mite drops after treating were very low in most of my hives this fall so there seems to be progress, but it will take time.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  8. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Hamilton, Alabama
    Posts
    3,042

    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    but the TF dogma is responsible for much irresponsible beekeeping.
    There is no "dogma" involved. It is a solidly proven concept, but repeatedly misapplied. Mite resistance is very clearly genetic and it is not just based on one trait such as VSH. Where this goes south is when a new beekeeper buys a bunch of treated bees, does not treat. They do fine the first year then collapse the second. This is typical of mite susceptible bees! It is very possible to keep bees using mite resistant genetics. Unfortunately, there are not many commercial sources for queens or packages.

    Even with mite resistant bees, the genetics can be overwhelmed if enough mites are brought into a colony such as from a hive collapsing from mite infestation.
    NW Alabama, 50 years, 20 colonies and growing, sideliner, treatment free since 2005, 14 frame square Dadant broodnest

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan, USA
    Posts
    652

    Default Re: Two untreated hives in my bee yard

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    I would worry, yes.

    If his hives get loaded up with mites, they will very definately spread into your hives.

    It is completely unreasonable for him to carry out his TF experiment, in your apiary. Although his intentions may not be bad, he probably just has not thought it through, or seen it from your viewpoint.

    It's difficult when dealing with a friend, to kick him out. However he is being absolutely inconsiderate. You got 2 choices. Allow him to continue his experiment in your apiary, or, ask him to do the experiment somewhere else.

    Ask him, would he be happy for you to run a fox farm, in his chicken house, or should the fox farm be run somewhere else.
    good advice Old Timer. IMO your "yard" is "I treat with vaporized Oxalic acid." If you want to have your hives in my yard this is the way we do it.......
    if he is insistent his hives not be treated, then ask him to kindly remove them from your "treated" yard. Sounds like he has a different mentor "treatment free" he can take them there, as he is not following your advice any way. give him a week and then Vape them. A real friend would understand your position.
    GG

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