Dead virgins in JZBZ cages - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Dead virgins in JZBZ cages

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    thats the old style big hole cage, I am running small hole not that I think that's the issue
    Ah - thanks for that - I wondered what you'd meant by 'small hole' - I had no idea that they'd changed the design. Like yourself, can't see that as being the issue.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

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  3. #22
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    Apr 2011
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    ElDorado,Arkansas,USA
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    Default Re: Dead virgins in JZBZ cages

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    I have watched virgins emerge in my observation hive and they are voracious when they first emerge. If you don't have some crystallized honey for them to eat they will quickly die. Or they will crawl back into the cell to eat the remaining royal jelly and then they don't come back out.
    I have watched the very same thing!!!

  4. #23
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    Default Re: Dead virgins in JZBZ cages

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper1d View Post
    Michael Bush: I have watched virgins emerge in my observation hive and they are voracious when they first emerge.
    I have watched the very same thing!!!
    I've seen the same thing in an incubator. But the conundrum is: why (assuming that the feed situation in both JZBZ and Roller Cages was exactly the same, i.e. no feed supplied, relying solely upon that supplied by worker bees) did the virgins die in the JZBZ cages and not in the Roller Cages ?

    Sure - the 'fix' is to ensure feed is available upon emergence (of course) - but that doesn't solve the puzzle of why one cage type resulted in survival, whilst the other didn't.
    LJ
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

  5. #24
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    Apr 2014
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    Powhatan, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: Dead virgins in JZBZ cages

    Question for the OP, MSL
    MB, Oldtimer, and JW all described Queens needing to feed themselves very soon after emergence.
    I am in complete agreement.
    Did you put a drop of honey in the cap of the roller cage?
    If so it would be accessible to the virgin but protected from the other workers.
    If you also feed the virgins in the JZBZ cages where did you put the honey?
    The cage design would allow the workers to eat the honey, even if you placed it inside the protected area of the cage, in the warmth of the hive it would run down to where the workers could consume it.
    Looks like honey would have to be on the inside vertical surface of the closed top close to the tube or inside the closed plug for it to be left for the virgin.
    Or did you not feed either sets?

  6. #25
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    Sep 2016
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    Denver Metro Area CO, USA
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    Default Re: Dead virgins in JZBZ cages

    neither cage type was fed

  7. #26
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    Apr 2014
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    Powhatan, Virginia, USA
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    Default Re: Dead virgins in JZBZ cages

    Thanks, that piece of info eliminates some possibilities at least.

  8. #27
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    Apr 2017
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    Aylett, Virginia
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    Default Re: Dead virgins in JZBZ cages

    Quote Originally Posted by msl View Post
    neither cage type was fed
    I think the question needs to flipped around. Why did the virgins in the roller cages live? The expectation from my perspective is that they should have all perished. Is it possible the first set in roller cages were better fed with royal jelly left over in the cell? Was the timing from emergence to removal of the cages the same? When emerging cells in my incubator, I check on them every 12 hours.
    Thankfully, the bees are smarter than I am. They are doing well, in spite of my efforts to help them.

  9. #28
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    Aug 2014
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    Default Re: Dead virgins in JZBZ cages

    It's certainly a good idea to provide the newly emerged virgin with either RJ, honey or fondant (in order of desirability) - but that's not essential if there are workers able to gain access. Before Chinese 'Nicot' roller-cage clones came onto the market, I made my own cages which didn't have any provision for holding feed - and they worked fine inside a Q-ve starter-finisher.

    Likewise, there's a guy in Cambodia (Khmer Beekeeping) who makes his own queen-rearing cages - and as you can see from this screen-grab, there's no provision there for supplying feed. He simply places the q/cell into the cage and then places it on top of the top bars.



    It was from watching his queen-rearing videos that I discovered the 'need' to keep q/cells vertical at all times has been one of those myths that appears never to have been questioned. So I placed a few ripe q/cells on top of top-bars, horizontally in my homemade cages, and sure - they emerged just fine.
    LJ

    FWIW - here are two of the above cage designs in use:



    Last edited by little_john; 11-23-2019 at 11:54 AM.
    A Heretics Guide to Beekeeping http://heretics-guide.atwebpages.com/

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